Ed McMahon: A pulse, a passing grade, and a business card
Carnac the Magnificent: Name the three things required to become a real estate agent
Inspiration
Lots of talk these days about the brokerage of the future. The brokerage model is under intense scrutiny. This is a good thing.
In fact, I’m inspired by those who seek a better way.
Still, a dark cloud hovers.
One that continues to rain on their progress.
Grab an umbrella
Over a recent dinner discussion, my guest – a broker who oversees 1,500 agents – asked what I would do if I were to start a brokerage from scratch.
We had just ordered appetizers. By dessert, after answering dozens of questions, he got to his biggest concern: the agents. He wanted to know what kind of agent I would recruit, what their qualifications would be and how I would overcome the pervasive technological, social and professional illiteracy inside the agent family.
I suggested we have a liquid dessert.
Yelppos!
Seriously, I told him, I’d invite all tiers. From top producers to relative newcomers. All would be welcome to interview.
But there would be standards.
They can leave their black book at home. Like Zappos, my brokerage would have an internal culture born from my beliefs, standards and morals and grown by people who share in those beliefs.
And if an account executive at Yelp needs to have a college degree and at least a year in sales to sell web ads to restaurants, well, then I can require at least as much of people who will be selling shelter to families. I know, hard ass!
But there is more to it. I ask myself all the time how it is that despite the billions earned through the transaction of real estate, why so many in this industry dangle by a thread above the abyss of poverty? But I guess it’s pretty obvious why that is. Few own major market share. Everyone scrapes by. Agents spend inordinate amounts of time warding off knuckleheads and brokers provide little in the way of true leadership and value back to agents. Consumers can’t distinguish one brokerage from another… because almost all of them hire too many lame agents.
This is simply no way to run a business.
My agents must be different. Better. Smarter. If I can’t get them, I don’t do it.
Raising the bar
Consider the technology knowledge, communication skills, multitasking ability, social networking finesse, customer service mojo and killer salesmanship that define today’s best agents.
Consider the combustion of consumers energizing the online marketplace and the myriad of platforms through which to communicate with them.
Consider the new opportunities that are almost too fast and too furious to keep up with.
Consider the torrent of technologies that allow every broker to strip expenses off their P&L like layers of dust caked on a collectible.
My agents would be all over this stuff.
My guest asked me if I wasn’t being a tad unrealistic, if it was reasonable to expect such things
I sipped the last of drop of my Grand Marnier.
Then chose these words carefully.
“Why not” ?I said. “Shouldn’t we aim higher?”
Doesn’t the real estate customer deserve at least that?
Local, Mobile, Social and the future of real estate
20 Tools to Bring your Real Estate Business to the Cloud
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“Maybe you are right, and it could be updated a bit though from 10 years ago.”
I don’t know Darin. The internet and technology really haven’t changed much in the last 10 years.
Jillayne – I don’t think consumers judge us by anything other than how fast we can sell their homes and how much we get for them unless they are buyers then they judge us by how quickly we help them find a home and how smoothly it all goes. I think that is part of the problem an agent can be unethical or even crooked but if the consumer feels they got what they wanted that is all that matters to them. This has never been about brokerages like Marc is talking about. Consumers don’t give a hang about brokerages or how they make money either.
“I don’t think consumers judge us by anything other than how fast we can sell their homes and how much we get for them unless they are buyers then they judge us by how quickly we help them find a home and how smoothly it all goes.”
The industry has done a very good job of teaching consumers that the above is all that matters.
The above reduces the agent’s role to that of a salesperson. It should be no surprise that consumers question commission dollars earned for simply doing the above.
For the record, the last several real estate transactions I have been a party to, my agent did far more than the above. There was a lot of counseling, a lot of listening (on her part) and a lot of data analysis.
I interact with a LOT of consumers online. They find something I wrote and ask questions. Many have had horrifying experiences with real estate agents. They do care when an agent is acting unethical or when an agent is breaking the law. They do care about working with an agent goes beyond a salesman’s role.
I am very happy to hear that and sorry to hear that some have had bad experiences with agents. that makes us all look bad.
@Jay, It is a joke. Those designations mean nothing.
Agents with gobs of designations who say a college degree is immaterial are being dishonest with themselves. Those designations are your de facto degrees are they not? If they aren’t why bother embossing them on your business cards and on your websites?
I know why – you’re trying to tell the world something about you. Well for me, an MBA speaks volumes. [Disclosure, I do not have an MBA]
Agents clamor for acronyms because deep down they want to showcase their higher education and expertise. Like Doctors do with their Ph.d’s and Lawyers with ESQ, and executives who hang their MBA’s on their office wall. These acronyms say something about us personally and professionally even though they have no bearing on how well we do our jobs.
Pop quiz – You needed heart surgery. Do you choose a Harvard Ph.d or Moombo, an Amazon medicine man with 30 years of experience?
Real estate is “the most important purchase we will ever make in our lives” right? Damn straight it is. You guys say it all the time. Well if if is, I, Joe consumer say, give us the best, smartest, most experienced and best education guys and gals you have. Stat.
And if the industry is reluctant to raise the bar, well then, what a opportunity it is for you to do it on your own. That’s my angle. Always. Locating the blue ocean.
@Darrin – regarding ePro. My 8-year old navigates the Web. Never took a course in it. He has a designation too. It’s a little little silver star mommy places on the fridge next to his name after he completes his homework tasks on it. The irony is, if asked by a consumer which computer literacy designation means more to them, your pops E-Pro or my kids silver stars – it’s a toss up which they’d pick.
Jillayne – who would you pick? My kids has 28 stars so far since the start of the semester.
Designation courses exist because the rank and file agent LACKS EDUCATION in the most basic processes that required to do business. So there is where I struggle and why I find the argument against higher learning and its application to real estate so hard to be a bystander to.
Maybe, as a result of some higher education, agents could enter this business, discern between brokerages, begin with an already heightened mastery of tools and technologies, years of formidable college experience developing marketing materials…
… and finally, possess a keener sense to spot the snake oil vendors and put an end to their preying on this business.
Raising the bar? My contribution to the effort is to coach and monitor each of my 65 agents to deliver the highest quality customer experience while adhering to the highest level of ethical behavior and professional conduct. I will de-hire those who do not deliver. I will not hire anyone who does not meet my standards criteria. Education is not a criteria. Intelligence, ethics, desire, attitude are. I’m paid to raise the bar.
Hi Bob, “Education is not a criteria” Well that’s interesting.
The assumption that you could be all things to all 65 of your hires is quite amazing.
What are those high…no, “highest” standards of ethics and professional conduct? Did you write those standards and ethical principles yourself or did they come from someone else?
I am honestly curious.
Thank you for adding to the conversation.
Hi there Jillayne, looks like some clarification is needed here….by education I was referring to the higher degree as referenced in the comment stream. Hope that did not confuse everyone; it’s late. We are salespeople. To be a great salesperson you do not have to have a college degree.
Not certain where you got the assumption that I was referring that I could be “all things to all 65 of my hires”. In my 23 years in this business I have yet to meet that “amazing” individual. What I can do is give 150% to the effort and cultivate those who choose to be part of the team.
Ethical behavior and professional conduct? Our NAR Code of Ethics and Professional Standards are a great starting point for those who need a guide! Add in your personal values, ethics and professional standards and you have your framework to hire people that you want to work with on your team.
I did not hire everyone on my team. I inherited 35% of them. it’s a process. Do other managers look at me like I am nuts when I fire a $6 million producer for doing something that is contrary to our standards? Yes. But I can sleep at night knowing that I am being represented out in public by people I know and trust to do the right thing on a very regular basis.
“To be a great salesperson you do not have to have a college degree.”
If real estate agents are just salespeople, then no college degree is required.
But then let’s stop pretending that agents are in the same ranks as professionals with college degrees and let’s stop being confused when consumers don’t respect the industry and question our value and our fees.
The real estate agent of 2010 and beyond ought be more than just a salesperson IMO.
If I could loop back to the original post for a second.
What lures brilliant people to go to work for great companies?
a) Great companies offer boatloads of money and bennies to employees.
b) The opportunity to do cool stuff
c) The opportunity to associate with other brilliant people
d) Great padding for the resume.
So Marc, what will you fantasy brokerage offer to lure the best and brightest in the business?
Joe,
Cool question. I may turn this into a blog post for next week.
Marc
[...] R.O.B. would set the bar much higher than it is now. 1000WattMarc’s dream real estate brokerage would be for all licensees to have, at the very minimum, a [...]
I find that Rob, Marc and Jillayne are all “Mostly” accurate. The one thing that was slightly glossed over was the Brokers participation in the equation.
Brokers are finally starting to see that a “body factory” of salespeople may not be the most efficient or the most profitable of business models.
I would put a substantial amount of blame on the Brokers for filling their offices with bodies, instead of taking the cream of the crop salesperson, whether they are newbies or old-timers,this would automatically make it harder for less reputable or shall we say less “professional” agents to even be in the industry. Since they wouldn’t be able to hang their license if they didn’t qualify under a stiffer requirement from the Broker.
I have been asked a number of times in my career to be a manager of an office. My answer is always the same. “I would have to fire everyone and start from scratch!”
Brokers: Go for higher productivity and lower numbers of “bodies” and the question of “Professionalism” would be mute.
P.S. I have a degree…in Hard Knocks!
Yvonne, do you really think “Brokers are finally starting to see that a “body factory” of salespeople may not be the most efficient or the most profitable of business models”?
The reason I ask is I get a ridiculous amount of spammy email from brokers all “recruiting me” (and I own my own brokerage) and these emails all tout better splits, lower fees, blah blah. None of them – NONE – ever say anything about bringing skills, expertise, etc.
I agree with you completely, and until brokers stop hiring anyone with a license and a pulse, nothing is really going to change. I know a few who get that, but I know a BUNCH more that don’t…
[...] ) A pulse, a passing grade and a business card: raising the bar on real estate agent qualifications – Kind of going along with what I just said, what does the future of the role of education play [...]
You want “good” people then pay them, the traditional 100% commission plan is out the window. The old timers in the industry and the PT new agents love the fact that the payment is 100% commission because they can come and go as they please, go get a hair cut any time, get the car repaired when they want, in short no accountability. I hear realtors say oh i am so busy… they don’t have a clue what busy is, they don’t have a clue what accountability is and they don’t have a clue what true sales is all about. The model has to change and will you just watch…..
Chris – I would say that anyone who has never supported themselves and their families for many years on a 100% commission basis doesn’t know what true sales is. Paid vacations! Ha! yes I get my oil changed anytime I can fit it in but I work nights and weekends and during the busy months 14 to 16 hours a day seven days a week. There are pluses and minuses but I can assure you we get very busy.
Teresa,
Unfortunately, as my experiences across real estate has rendered, Chris’s generalizations are fairly accurate. But I am also able to discern between the masses of bodies that clog real estate arteries and the true professionals like like yourself and others, many of whom I find myself surrounded by here on our blog.
Trust that I would defend your reputations to the death! And it’s why I am turning the heat up on this conversation. The more we eliminate the masses, the sooner the stereotyping and generalizations will end.
Digression:
I had a fascination occurrence last week with an agent.I called and emailed an “expert” who specializes in a town where I have a home whose value has disintegrated. I made quite clear in my email and subsequent voice mail to them how desperate I am to sell it. 5 days later, a return came too early in the morning to answer. When I listened to the voice mail I was dumbfounded. The agent was unclear what I wanted specifically and mentioned he could find any street called Allison Court. That made sense since my home is on Alysum court – a common mistake if you can’t read. He left me a number to call which I tried a dozen times but to no avail. The fax signal I kept getting pretty much made leaving a message impossible.
When I finally got through he had just sat down to eat lunch, and didn’t seem interested in giving me 5 seconds to correct the street the name and instead made it clear he would call back in an hour.
I understood. Eating lunch undisturbed is far more important than appeasing a customer for a few seconds.
That call back didn’t come until 24 hours later.
I had just popped a stick of gum in my mouth.
Priorities prevail.
I thought about this conversation. And how I can count the number of Teresa B’s I’ve met within my own transactional life. And the belief that these generalizations are born of reality.
No, I won’t be calling him back. I want someone who can, at the very least, read. Or at least Columbo his way through the process and uncover possibilities on the outside chance I misspelled the street name and didn’t say it clearly enough in my voice mail. And has a fairly good grasp of what an hour is.
But I guess if he’s a good salesman…
Marc -
Up until I read this comment I wasn’t sure what you were all talking about when it comes to professionalism. Now at least I have a clue. We talk about professionalism and the bar but we don’t really define them.
I only have one phone number and anyone can call it at anytime and most of the time I will answer. I guess I never understood agents who could not be reached, or why any business in the day and age would have a ton of phone numbers. If you leave a voice mail . . heck I can’t answer them all the longest you would ever wait for a call back is two hours. People are amazed by it leaving me to conclude that others don’t return calls that quickly. I have always had the belief that a big part of what it takes to be successful in this business it being there. I am even faster with emails and am often perplexed when people find me on my blog, call me becasue of it and I have to recite my email address or tell them where to find it so things like street addresses and other information can be in writing.
with all that said let me share a little of what it is like to be a Realtor these days. It wouldn’t be hard for me to write a few hundred words on what it is like during this housing crisis to have my business to resemble a social service or a twenty four hour hot line. We all give away a lot of free services like CMA’s and more to win business. There is a line and there are people that will suck away our time and use our advice and move on. I have been known to just help people for free for the heck of it but I can’t do that all the time.
I sometimes resent the way I am treated by the general public. Like I always owe them something and maybe I do but there is a limit and I am not a free counseling service. I am treated like a scum sucking sales person one moment and the next I am treated like a social worker.
I am not suggesting that I agree with the way you were treated but show trying to shed a little light on the big picture from a realtors point of view. I am really enjoying this conversation and even though I say I want to stay away from it I hope you will take it further.
I just called a prospect that left a voice mail yesterday. I apologized for the delay getting back to him, explained I was at a conference in San Francisco and that’s thrown me off a little.
He said, “No problem! You are the sixth agent I’ve call about listing my home, and you are the only one who responded.”
We’ve got an appointment to list his $500K home later this week. $500K may not sound like a lot to some, but it should be noted the median home price in the Phoenix area is $139K.
And *no one* called this guy….
I would love to see the licensing standards of Realtors increased. Real Estate is a second profession for me. I was a Real Estate Attorney prior to going into luxury residential real estate. I came into this profession with certain standards of professionalism and expected to receive the same professionalism in return from other Realtors. Boy was I wrong! I guess it was too much to expect considering in Arizona you don’t even need to be a high school graduate. That’s right – even high school drop outs can become Realtors. The minimum standard in Arizona is that you are 18 years old and take the two week course.
@Teresa,
It is my belief that agents are treated this way due the the business model (giving away free services) and the perception people have of agents based on the low bar to entry allowing agents with seemingly no skills in the areas important to the transaction today (technology, advertising, organization). This lack of skills has been evidenced and catapulted by the Web and by the sheer plethora of horrific agent Websites.
Take the site I Tweeted last week of the agent sitting inside a shopping cart? This stuff proliferates the Internet.
Let’s face it how the number of agents have been able to put together blog sites as professional and content rich as yours, Jay’s, Kris Bergs, et al are limited.
Interestingly, the one common denominator you all share is your college education. Coincidence? Maybe.
I’m of the belief that the reason people treat Realtors poorly stems from the fact that everyone has a dimwitted cousin Bob who became an agent, and affixed words like professional, honest, ethical, knowledgeable, sophisticated, etc., on their business cards and Websites. The public surely finds this deceitful. They know better.
I’ll tell ya, this grand push to get agents blogging and tweeting is a huge mistake.
Jay – Congrats on the listing. And kudos for springing into action. By national stats, you could be 3 days late and still be the first to call.
This causes me to wonder — what makes a great salesperson? Granted, I’ve noted here that in my brokerage I’d weigh professional accumen before salesmanship and would prefer an office of Jay Thompsons than I would an office of Bob “The Hat” Smith’s because I fundamentally believe I can better institute call back protocols among a professional group rather than a loose confederate of independent sales people who do whatever they want, when they want.
But I’ve given pause to this as I consider what really makes a great salesperson. As I think this about it, I am convinced that while you don’t need any education at all to be a great salesperson, the number of truly gifted salespeople in real estate are as limited as the number of professionals.
Realizing this might create another round of comments, the bottom line is that being a top producer and churning volume doesn’t necessarily qualify one as a great salesperson. There’s a lot more to it that than that.
What do you all think? What would be on your list of the top five things that define a great salesperson?
I have met thousands of Realtors and agents. I interact with hundreds of agents every year because of my line of work.
Over the past 2 decades I have only used one Realtor.
The reason: She is an exceptionally fine listener.
This skill takes work, unless it’s culturally ingrained into you at a very young age. She happens to be Japanese American so perhaps this was taught as a child.
I wrote a follow up blog post for Marc (and Teresa) on the subject of professions v. non-professions.
Marc, may I post the link?
Hi All,
Marc says I can post the link. I didn’t want to be a link baiter without permission. Here you go:
“Is it time to require a college degree to become a real estate agent?”
http://ceforward.com/?p=127
Being a professional goes way beyond just calling clients back within a reasonable time frame.
Thanks Jillayne for posting this. I read your post last week and enjoyed it.
marc
More education? A college degree? Sounds like a sales pitch to me.
What the Real Estate Industry needs is Real Estate agents.
In that interview process you should ask how many properties a person owns or intends to own. That’s why people have Real Estate licenses.
Real Estate is NOT a commission sales position. It’s a portal to build welath. You are either in the game, or get out.
@ David
huh?
We just met.
Real Estate is a business. It’s purchases and sales.
You are either in the business or an observer.
[...] A pulse, a passing grade and a business card: raising the bar on real estate agent qualifications – What will the brokerage of the future look like? Will more formal education be required, will [...]
[...] a recent post I waxed on about the type of agents I would recruit if I started a [...]
It is my belief that an agent with a degree runs just as much risk of being a sub-standard Realtor as does an agent without a degree. Nothing in college taught me how to sell. It is something that came from within.
@Houstonblogger – Right. A degreed individual does not come without flaws. I also agree you can’t learn sales in college, which is precisely why I don’t place too much emphasis on “sales”.
For some reason my message isn’t getting across. If real estate is all about sales – then what separates those who sell used cars from you who sell used houses?
We use the word sales in real estate to define the action of selling a home but most agents I’ve met don’t consider themselves in sales or salespeople. They see this occupation as something more than that. As I do.
If you were a just a salesperson, what then separates you from a used car salesperson, the Avon Lady or the kid in the audio section of Best Buy? To the consumer – nothing.
To your point if “sales” requires no formal education arguably, anyone can learn it. so please explain to me where I am flawed in wanting to be picky about the “anyone” I bring into my organization, Especially if I am trying to convey something better than an office filled with salespeople to market?
While sales is part of the process to some degree, I’ve noticed that many of you do much more than sell. You provide services. You are marketers. You are technologists. With a heightened degree of customer service sensitivities that aim to increase the entire engagement processes.
Ironically, so many of you who are also noticeably successful and progressive have one thing in common – your academic backgrounds.
Hey, imagine a brokerage with 20 of you as its agents. Smart. technologically savvy. Self motivated. Proficient in social media. Good writers. Good marketers. Sensitive. And educated. Combine that with what you know about me and what I can do.
Imagine the brokerage we could build if stuck to this culture and never deviated. We might not have the most “sales” but I am willing to bet we’d do just fine. A commend respect.
Ah, perchance to dream.
I am an agent and consider myself a salesperson, and proudly so. The fact that so much negative connotation is put behind the use of the word “sales” is pretty ridiculous to me. I have found in the different cultures in which I have been employed, those with a largely historic background in marketing will view those in “sales” as a greedy, unprofessional and lacking in education.
“If you were a just a salesperson, what then separates you from a used car salesperson, the Avon Lady or the kid in the audio section of Best Buy? To the consumer – nothing.”
Absolutely correct, nothing. Why? Because I’m not “selling” houses. A house can sell itself. Avon can sell itself, and a car can sell itself. However, I make my income by taking the product, in this instance, the house, and selling “myself” to the consumer. I sell the consumer on my personality, my services, my intelligence and my knowledge of the industry. Otherwise, a consumer would walk into any agency and use the first person they find with no thought or concern regarding who was representing them. I highly doubt that many would purchase anything from someone without taking the personality of the “seller” into consideration. If I went to buy a car and the salesman had 10 diplomas yet was unable to speak to me without looking at his shoes or smacking his gum, due to lack of communication skills, I’d move on.
Yes, I’m a marketer, technologist, I have a great education and I have wonderful customer service skills. However, I can have all these great qualities and still be a complete raging dumbass with absolutely no people skills whatsoever. So, when you refer to “sales” you are, in essence, referring to a person’s ability to sell others on their “people skills”. Unfortunately, I don’t know of another word that exists to encompass this.
“To your point if “sales” requires no formal education arguably, anyone can learn it. so please explain to me where I am flawed in wanting to be picky about the “anyone” I bring into my organization, Especially if I am trying to convey something better than an office filled with salespeople to market??
I don’t agree with this and it fully goes against my original post. I do not feel that you can teach someone to be likable. You cannot teach someone how to figure out whether or not the person who is coming up to you is an introvert or extrovert by the way they walk and handle themselves as they approach you. I do not feel that the ability to connect with a myriad of different personalities is something that is teachable. That is the reason I said it “comes from within”.
“Hey, imagine a brokerage with 20 of you as its agents. Smart. technologically savvy. Self motivated. Proficient in social media. Good writers. Good marketers. Sensitive. And educated. Combine that with what you know about me and what I can do.”
That does sound great. But, without the innate ability to interact with others with a level of skill much higher and much more influential than the typical person (in other words, sales ability) you really just have a shiny storefront with exciting new widgets, gadgets, diplomas and perhaps some cool ads. This might entice a buyer or seller to come inside, however, who is going to influence them to stay and sign on with your agency as a buyer or seller? The salesperson.
“You cannot teach someone how to figure out whether or not the person who is coming up to you is an introvert or extrovert by the way they walk and handle themselves as they approach you. I do not feel that the ability to connect with a myriad of different personalities is something that is teachable. That is the reason I said it “comes from within”.”
So did we all just come out of the womb knowing these things?
No, we were taught. It doesn’t come from within, it comes from our earliest caregivers. Surely we have evolutionary traits that we’ve passed along such as the drive to care for each other but dude, you’re cracking me up.
Adults definitely have the capacity to learn how to connect with different personalities, how to learn if someone is an introvert or extrovert, and so forth. Humans have the capacity (and some would say the drive) to continue to learn all throughout their lives.
There’s nothing wrong with being a salesperson. Just don’t expect the public to have any higher opinion of agents than….a salesperson.
Most agents I know rank themselves alongside other professionals like a doctor, lawyer, CPA, paralegal yet the general public doesn’t place agents in that category.
Professionals are also skilled in the art of helping their clients. There’s no selling needed. Either a client needs their services or doesn’t. Oh sure they may need to learn marketing skills but professionals don’t have to sell. The consumer needs them.
Go ahead and stay salespeople. I’m definitely not putting down salespeople. Just don’t fool yourselves agents, into thinking you rank alongside other professional groups who hold a college degree.
“Hey, imagine a brokerage with 20 of you as its agents. Smart. technologically savvy. Self motivated. Proficient in social media. Good writers. Good marketers. Sensitive. And educated. Combine that with what you know about me and what I can do.”
I was trained by the Dale Carnegie method and followed Tommy Hopkins program. I know Mike, and Mathew Ferry.
Sales technique is a tool.
What’s important is knowing the Real Estate business and the product of building a Real Estate.
If an agent is serious about having Real Estate as a career it’s as simple as getting out and knocking on doors. Start with 300 doors, knock on them, meet the people, and build a data base. When you get your first listing hold it open every day, and meet the neighbors.
You need to know your locations first, pricing second, and what constitutes good condition. Meet the other agents in your market area, and be nice.
It takes, now, about three to five years to build a sustainable Real Estate business. Pay attention to your data base and follow up three times a year, once a quarter.
That’s the business. There is no short cut or magic formula. You meet people, and stay in contact.
Best of Luck.
@HB
What makes ya think that in this fantasy brokerage of mine that I would recruit a bunch of dry, no personalty, unlikeable, bookworms with no recognizable talent to sell their way out of a paper bag?
Me thinks there is too much protest here. Sales ability is indeed required and my agents will be chosen by their wide spectrum of abilities that include salesmanship. But their talents and abilities won’t beging and end there.
And I know I wouldn’t have a hard time recruiting considering how many passionate, schooled, talented agents there are already here in real estate that can also sell.
With a smile I say – this is about creating something different. That’s it. A brokerage that looks, fells, sounds, thinks and operates a little differently. Something that would give me, a marketer, a person that knows how to build a brand, something special I can work with.
Yet the arguments continue to come back around in defense of the common “sales” agent. I just don’t get that especially here where we are trying to go beyond the common.
The best Real Estate agent I ever met drove a pick up truck with the dog in the passenger seat. He worked in Pat Melton’s office and over the years he did begrudgingly buy an Acura after the dog died.
He never lied, knew his product, and was easy with people.
Hi David,
Yeah, I remember Pat Melton’s office. It sat along Highway 99 in a rough part of town and was a single-wide mobile home. I also remember how a few of the guys in that manly man cave use to want to give me a “hug” to say hello.
Maybe it’s possible that in 2010, we can do more than just saying the best agents are people who “never lie, know their product and are easy with people.”
Maybe the 2010 client wants more.
Maybe the people who inhabit the world in 2010 want more.
And maybe the broker needs more. Or least needs agents like those described here who don’t cost 95% so the broker can run his/her business and make a living, feed family and afford to continually bring in innovative tools to continually improve the agents who work for at the brokerage.
I am loving the spirit of defending sales agents. But you are forgetting one simple thing, the passion and love you share for each other is not shared by the public. Just read the comments here after this article – http://bit.ly/cfHpk3 – This is the perception I want to try and combat.
David – with all due respect, these folks you cite are from another era. We live in a social world man where you telling me how great you are holds no weight when balanced against the advice I received from my social circle about who is great. Mike Ferry and his real estate in a can method once ruled the landscape. There is more to it today and I know you don’t see it. But the 400,000,000 people who live on Facebook and do things a new way would view those tactics as obsolete. But to each his own.
The comparison of my position to that of a Doctor, Attorney, CPA, etc. is irrelevant to me. I don’t judge people by a title that they own, nor do I consider myself or someone else to be in a higher echelon simply because of a “badge of honor” they wear.
I measure the value of a potential employee (yes, I also have a very successful non-Real Estate business with my husband)based upon their previous successes, how they handle themselves in an interview and what I know about them from watching their performance and interactions in the industry.
Yes, I agree there are a plethora of less than desirable brokerages and agents in this world. However, I worked in the spinal implant industry for 7 years, and trust me, there are much more unethical weasels who have PhD. I should think the same could be said of Attorneys and if you were to actually ask the public their opinion of said professions, it would likely be very low.
I’m guessing the same could be said of the lending industry? Surely one can’t think that a mortgage company or lender is up to par in public opinion with a doctor or lawyer?
“So did we all just come out of the womb knowing these things?
No, we were taught. It doesn’t come from within, it comes from our earliest caregivers. Surely we have evolutionary traits that we’ve passed along such as the drive to care for each other but dude, you’re cracking me up.”
I appreciate your sarcasm, but no, I’m not so ignorant as to think that we come out of the womb this way. I am simply stating that it is typically an inherited trait that we gain as we grow and undergo different challenges in life. Unfortunately, not everyone is able to gain this type of perspective and it is not something that can be taught. If I worked full-time in the industry and actually put effort into making it my living, I can guarantee you, without a doubt, my past experience working in sales is what would make me one of the top producers. My sales ability, not my diploma.
Marc, I know you know how to build a brand. I know you know that I trust in your opinion much more-so than that of anyone else, with the exception of perhaps my broker. I think you have an exceptional view of the market, exciting ideas and great concepts. I am the one who can “sell” them.
” know you know that I trust in your opinion much more-so than that of anyone else, with the exception of perhaps my broker”
I love your affinity to your broker. That’s the passion I want in my brokerage. In my fantasy brokerage, you my dear, would most likely be my first hire!
I would more than love to work for your fantasy brokerage! <3 <3
Danelle says “Unfortunately, not everyone is able to gain this type of perspective and it is not something that can be taught.”
All humans, with some very minor exceptions, have the ability to learn the things you insist cannot be taught.
Interesting.
Danelle, I have written extensively about mortgage lending and their emerging professional status. That’s a different topic for a different blog post and yes there are definitely people in all professions who are less than. But we’re not talking about the small percentage of people on the end of the bell curve in any profession. We’re trying to raise the bar for the majority in one group: The real estate sales agent.
It’s fascinating to constantly read over and over again that the one opinion Realtors seem to not care about is the opinion of consumers.
Everyone has a high opinion of themselves. That’s normal self-respect and your ego talking.
But does the opinion of the general public in regards to how they view the average real estate agent matter?
In my fantasy world, all licensed agents graduate from a 4 year program specializing in real estate and none of the classes would be in “selling skills.” Marketing yes, but no selling.
Selling, to me, reduces the consumer to an object that must be manipulated in order to achieve monetary gain. It’s treating people as a means to an end instead of as an end in themselves.
I know thousands of agents. The best of the best don’t do anything near the word “selling.” They do something completely different. And that thing can be taught….if the agent is open to learning.
Wow, great conversation. I wish I paid attention to it when it first came through my reader because now there is just too much to respond to. I guess I’ll just throw out a couple of things directed at no one in particular.
It would be hypocritical for me to say that a degree is mandatory as I do not have one myself. However, if I ever decide to hire on agents I might lean towards a person with a degree more than one without UNLESS the other had sufficient life/work experience to compensate … Mainly because a high school diploma means nothing anymore with the state of our schools today.
I’ve known a lot of dumbasses with a degree. I’ll take an honest, hardworking person who is willing to learn before a “I have a degree so I deserve a good job” a-hole any day of the week.
I have never considered myself to be a salesman. You cannot sell a house to someone who doesn’t need one or convince someone that a house is right for someone when it isn’t. I think of myself as a consultant, advisor, negotiator, insulator, problem solver, matchmaker, marketer, and customer service rep. Yes, salesman is a dirty word in my book. Every time I am approached by a salesman I feel like I need a shower.
I am a professional whether you use it as a noun or an adjective. No, I don’t have a piece of paper from a school but I do have a degree from the school of hard knocks. Experience trumps book knowledge every time. You can pay for knowledge but you can only earn experience.
The brokerage model designed around “agents are independent contractors” is flawed and is not conducive to sustain or create a healthy company. No matter what legislative strings were pulled to create an independent contractor status for real estate salespeople (brokers lobbying congress to get out of paying taxes and insurance for non-producing agents, no doubt) brokers need to hire agents as employees and treat them as such otherwise you don’t have a business, you’re just at the top of a pyramid scheme that consists of desk fees, mark-up on E&O, and whatever else you can charge the agents.
It would take a major mind-shift to get agents to agree to a flat fee payment with taxes removed, but just like any successful company, if the leader has a strong vision people tend to get behind them.
The standard brokerage model brings a bunch of mavericks under one roof and lets them run wild. No matter how much I enjoyed the company of other agents in the office I used to work for there was still the feeling that I had to look over my shoulder and make sure I didn’t leave anything on my desk that may tip my hand. That kind of competition makes for a horrible workplace.
Designate territories, remove internal competition, do not allow personal branding. Have everyone work as a team to promote the company, not the individual agent. What client wouldn’t feel more comfortable knowing that they’ve got a strong company in their corner and not just one person? How’s that for a USP?
This RTB mantra that has been flowing around the RE.net has to start with the broker who raises the bar of his own organization. The State’s job is to make and enforce laws. NAR swings around its COE as if everyone who sends in their $$ automagically grows a conscience. That’s BS. I don’t need to pay NAR to have a code of ethics … I got that from my parents. I have taught it to my kids. I would expect it from my agents. Really, the NAR Code should be thrown out and just make everyone swear to uphold the Golden Rule. Remember that one? Kindergarten stuff, folks.
Sorry to ramble on here … I may have strayed off topic a bit as well, but I think it all ties together. If you’ve gotten this far, thanks for reading. I wish there were good minds such as the folks participating here in my local area so I could talk through these things in person. Good topic, good conversation, good night!
Marc says “I love your affinity for your broker”. My broker is a friend and I imagine I would do most anything for him and have done some things for free on my own time to help the brokerage but my clients come first and are foremost in my mind. Real estate isn’t about brokerages. Consumers just want a house bought or sold they don’t care about the brokerage. I’ll just bet it you asked my current buyers which brokerage I am with they couldn’t tell you. My sellers can because they see the logo on the sign every day. Brokerages care about brokerages and most add little or no value to the transaction for the consumers.
Jillayne-
“Danelle, I have written extensively about mortgage lending and their emerging professional status. That’s a different topic for a different blog post and yes there are definitely people in all professions who are less than. But we’re not talking about the small percentage of people on the end of the bell curve in any profession. We’re trying to raise the bar for the majority in one group: The real estate sales agent.”
I’d say that yes, that does deserve a blog post because unfortunately, it is not a small percentage of people. If you view the mortgage industry as only having a small percentage of undesirable professionals in it, then how in the world can you view the Real Estate industry differently? In my opinion, if you are going to start “raising the bar” to make consumers happy, let’s do it across the board. Let’s do it in EVERYONE’S industry.
“It’s fascinating to constantly read over and over again that the one opinion Realtors seem to not care about is the opinion of consumers.
Everyone has a high opinion of themselves. That’s normal self-respect and your ego talking.”
I would venture out to say that your anger and apparent distaste for Realtors in general does not allow you to view us in any other light. It is possible to be a salesperson and still care about the consumer. Has this ever crossed your mind? I am not an ego-centric person. I will drop a client like lightening if I think that they are making a decision that will end up in the likelihood of a foreclosure in their future. I educate my clients on their purchases and insist that they sit down with a lender and go over realistic expectations for what they can afford BEFORE we even step foot in a house. I sit and discuss their desires and dreams and goals and how we can turn that into a realistic reality. I educate them on the process, I am with them EVERY step of the way. I fight hard to make sure they get the best deal possible.
“But does the opinion of the general public in regards to how they view the average real estate agent matter?”
Not so much, to be honest. If so, why don’t we institute change, across the board, in every profession? And, before you state that this is not significant and needs another blog post, please see the significance. You are trying to set a regulation on my livelihood. That is unfortunate. Do you think that if you were to change the industry to your “fantasy” that things would be different? No, they would be just as bad, if not worse. If we are paid flat rates and have no incentive, what reason do we have for trying our hardest to do the best possible job we can in order to regain that customer as repeat business? Or a referral? Why in the world would I want to give such incredible customer service only to end up with a mass quantity of business that I’m paid a flat rate for? Then, I look next to me at Joe Blow who is picking his nose, doing the bare minimum, yet getting paid similar to me? No thank you. This is why Surgeons asked me to take them to sales trainings. So they could learn to “sell” the patients on the newest surgery. This is why my eye doctor goes into a “pitch” whenever he is ready to discuss my contacts for my new prescription. Because they receive more money for SELLING you on it
“In my fantasy world, all licensed agents graduate from a 4 year program specializing in real estate and none of the classes would be in “selling skills.” Marketing yes, but no selling.”
Then you would have an extremely educated group of Realtors who can advertise the hell out of your company, and themselves, yet lose business to the person at the competing brokerage down the street who “sold” them because they had incentive to. All consumers interview Realtors. It is up to you to have the desire to capture them before they move on to the next one. That is a “sales” skill. Put whatever term you want to on it so you don’t feel like a greaseball, but that’s what it is.
I agree that more education in this industry would be helpful. Never once have I taken a “sales” class in Real Estate. Marketing, yes. Sales, no.
“Selling, to me, reduces the consumer to an object that must be manipulated in order to achieve monetary gain. It’s treating people as a means to an end instead of as an end in themselves.”
I see your point, but you must see that there is sales in just about every single industry? At blockbuster the cashiers make commission off of the candy or extras you purchase. Doctors get incentives from hospitals to book a certain amount of surgeries (yes, I do know this to be fact). Attorneys get bonuses for bringing in more clientele to the firm. CPA’s get fat incentives at tax season for new clients. The world is a sales place. To deny this exists would mean you not only need to set up a fantasy brokerage, but a fantasy world.
“I know thousands of agents. The best of the best don’t do anything near the word “selling.” They do something completely different. And that thing can be taught”.if the agent is open to learning.”
Good! I’m glad you know thousands of agents. If you don’t see what they are doing as “selling” and you want to package it up in a fancier name to make it look and feel more acceptable, that’s fine. But, in the end, it is all about retaining a client. That is sales. I can be taught anything. I have zero objection to it. I have an objection to people trying to regulate my income because of a few bad apples. Sorry, JMO.
Jillyanne, you are exactly right. The question is: If you started your business today would you blog, or go out to the offices and risk the “hugs.”
David, why must this be and/or? Can’t one do both?
You can do both, but you want the agent who hits those 300 doors. That’s the experience.
Teresa,
Real estate is very much about the brokerage. The brokerage owns the listing. The brokerage is also legally responsible for every agent and transaction and will be where the final legal bucks stops should a lawsuit ever be issued by a client.
To reduce this whole thing down to “consumers just want a house bought or sold they don’t care about the brokerage” stands in defiance of how consumers think and what motivates them to purchase and from whom to purchase services from.
While I believe your statement to be true, it’s a sad testimony to something very powerful and special the brokerage relinquished.
The very reason consumers don’t care about the brokerage is the very reason I wrote this piece – to create a brokerage that’s different. One that people do care about. Agents and customers.
You wrote “I’ll just bet it you asked my current buyers which brokerage I am with they couldn’t tell you.”
That’s sad. A brokerage that matters would want that buyer to know who they are. A brokerage that matters would want that buyer to know that their interests are just as important to them as it is to the agent. A brokerage that matters would have agents all too happy to educate their clients on the benefits of the brokerage who is ultimately responsible for everything and everyone.
In our current obtuse industry this might appear as a scary, unrealistic sentiment. But I posit that a brokerage that matters to the community is one that will derive more business for its agents than the one that does not. I really believe that.
Maybe this doesn’t matter to you personally. Or to other agents in this conversation. That’s ok. It does not have too. But it matters to a brokerage. And it sure would matter to me if I built one because I believe that brands matter to the consumer especially when every one involved in the brand is aligned.
Here’s an example:
I buy BMW’s from Coast BMW. I love the product. I also love Scott my sales guy who I consider a friend at this point. But I also love Coast – the dealership too. A) They provided Scott. B) They make him happy there because he always seems to be happy. 3) Scott is only human. He gets sick. He has days off. He has other clients. He takes vacations. Sometimes I need Scott when he’s not there. And in those instances, I go to the dealership. They pick up the slack. And providing the very same sets of services and respect Scott does. I am never left wondering. Waiting for a call back. Or not being serviced. In this regard, the dealership matters. If there were a relationship like this inside a brokerage, that brokerage would matter too.
This sensibility is defied in real estate. The brokerage has come to mean nothing. The broker might be someone an agent likes but never enough to get their client anywhere near even when they are sick, on vacation, with someone else etc.
My friends – many of you are making this about yourselves. That’s cool. But the more you continue to defend the role of an agent the more you are supporting my belief that the very thing that rips a brokerage apart is the agent only focused on themselves. I understand why you are all like this. Most brokerages do not cultivate anything different nor do they do much to earn your loyalty. Or cultivate a culture where you can trust your fellow brokerage mate as James indicated.
I fundamentally believe however, that the brokerage who cultivates something different will be a shinning jewel of a business in their community.
I believe a brokerage can matter.
Currently, perhaps none do in real estate.
All the more reason to imagine one that does.