I’m no Abe Lincoln. I don’t posses his self-assurance. Or his legendary judgment. But he taught me the importance of holding two opposing thoughts in my head at the same time – something I was called upon to do this week.
On Monday, I had strong set of beliefs about social media. Today they are altered. While I owe a debt of gratitude to Lincoln for showing me the importance of having an open mind, I have someone to thank for filling it with brightness: Bill Lublin.
Chicken soup for the social soul
Like chicken soup, beliefs tend be as any Jewish grandmother would advise, a little bit of this mixed with a whole lot of that and cooked over heat for a long period of time.
And, like chicken soup, beliefs can sometimes be a bit cloudy.
After speaking with Bill yesterday (which turned out be a historically long phone call where time passed far too quickly) my beliefs on social media poured through his cheesecloth.
Today, they are clarified.
For the record, I take this social media thing pretty seriously. But only because of the threat I feel it presents to brokers and agents when pitched by overzealous promoters who use everything from exaggerated success stories to scare tactics to sell whatever it is they’re selling.
I saw this occur during the 90′s, when real estate discovered the Internet, and in the early part of this decade when technology salespeople were peddling crack disguised as ambrosia. So many real estate people bought into goods that were anything but. Thankfully, karma has a way of working things out and while most real estate people are still around, many of the vendors that sold snake oil aren’t.
But there are always new ones emerging.
Tugging at me to sound the alarm.
Warning. Warning.
I was not alone in this concern. Real Estate Tomato launched in an effort to provide products and education for emerging bloggers. As did Internet Crusade and Active Rain. Leading Real Estate Companies of the World swiftly reacted with concern, creating the blogging platform Propopoly to better enable agents to blog safely through the use of their editorial and legal eye. Frances Flynn Thorsen and her firm created social media policies to bring some order to the discussion.
All around me geysers of goodness where springing forth. But I was skeptical. I had beliefs. And I kept to them. Despite emerging facts around me.
SMMI
When SMMI launched, delivering a social media program wrapped around a 2-day course that culminates with a social media designation, my skepticism was unwavering. Fueled by other cynics both inside and outside the industry who paid too much attention to the negative aspects of social media, I found myself focusing so intensely on the bad I failed to acknowledge the good.
Then I spoke to Bill this week. And it might very well stand out as the best phone call I’ve had in the 13 years I’ve been in real estate.
Bill told me things that made me laugh. He told me things that made me think. Bill also told me things that made me cry (Bill, that long pause of silence while you were speaking was me trying like hell to compose myself).
After the call, I shut down my computer. No wait, first I ate some humble pie and DM’d a few people. There are more on my list like Ginger, Jeff, Jim and bunch more who I now understand a whole lot better than I ever allowed myself too. Thanks to Bill Lublin. And Abe Lincoln.
Then I went home.
I hugged my wife.
A little tighter than I normally do.
I was wrong
As it turns out, my beliefs are still in tact. And my instincts about social media are not wrong actually. At least according to Bill, whom I learned shares the very same passions and concerns I do.
Where I have been remiss is not realizing how many more advocates there are in real estate who are looking out for everyone’s best interest. If only I just paid a little more attention, or as Todd suggested on Twitter, get a little social media training of my own, I might have recognized it. Damn straight Todd. I was blind.
I see better today.
- Davison
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Marc
I’d get a few back-ups on the baby just for insurance, too!
Bill,
A large majority of agents will likely say and do the wrong things using Social Media, at least initially. What do you say to the Owner-Brokers and companies about why they should risk that negative exposure to their brand? Aren’t they better off steering clear of Social Media. Maybe not banning it…but not pushing it either?
@ARDELL there will always be a few agents that get it wrong. But to ensure the majority don’t get it wrong, there has to be training, and it has to be well thought out. Agents need to be shown scenarios and given possible outcomes to see the real potential for harm to the company brand and to themselves. There will always be stupid reckless behavior. That is exactly why companies are in need of a social media policy now. Whether you push it or you steer clear of it, there will be people participating in it and there will be liability.
There are a lot of ways to create negative exposure for a brand. Not just social media.
Ok, I’ll jump into the fray.
I’m a newbie to much of your world in many ways. A newbie to blogging…a newbie to SM…and essentially a newbie to real estate. My background is important to note, not just because it frames my opinions and ideas, but because it guides me in my new real estate brokerage.
Trust me…I will make a strong point at the end of this!
Upon graduating college back in the mid ’90s, I entered the world of commercial real estate where I spent a year getting my ass kicked as a rookie. Then I spent over two years in residential real estate with good success. I left the real estate industry because I had a great opportunity to run the entire sales division in my father’s wholesale business. We were very successful. I am a very good salesperson, and I managed, hired, trained, our territory salespeople and eventually our regional sales managers in several states. We had an awesome business…extremely profitable. We chose not to chase our competition with whatever “they” were using to try to gain market share from us. We stuck to our guns, made our customers feel like gold, and made money…that simple.
We sold the business at the start of 2007 for a killing. I continued to work for the new ownership until December 2008. I had been working on my backup plan…get my brokerage license and get back into real estate, which had always gotten me so pumped up! We were buying real estate in 2008 and 2009 as investments, and I knew that the market was perfect for me to get back in…as a business. Just as this economy has opened up unlimited opportunities for those that take action, the real estate agent (and brokerage) market is ripe for fresh meat.
To me, better than SM or all of the hoopla is the fact that now is THE time to plant my feet and begin to establish my new brokerage (virtual I might ad) in my marketplace.
The best chance for my success is the fact that my real estate peers have changed. Some are leaving the industry for good. The part-time real estate moms aren’t coming back for a long time. Now is the perfect time for me to establish myself as a new local real estate brand.
I will be honest. I am absolutely confident that I will succeed…other forces I just mentioned instantly improved my odds as a small business. I also am not interested in blowing money unnecessarily…
So I hired Marc Davison this summer…and he was critical for creating the branding-internet-marketing side of my brokerage.
Am I doing SM?…Yes.
Am I blogging?…you bet.
But I am not spending my precious days on Twitter or Facebook as much as when I started with Marc. I am a very social person, so my contacts and clients get my energy immediately when we first meet or speak. And I think that we all agree that face-to-face cannot be replaced in building true clientele.
We all know the phrase “there’s only so much time…”. Well, right now, I’m spending my time trying to close more deals, speak to more prospects, and capture market share. There is a very limited window. I constantly read how experienced agents “need SM” to reinvent themselves or their business…BS.
Take advantage of your competition. Become more business minded. Dominate. Get better educated. And try to reach out on SM if you feel comfortable doing that. But you can’t be great at everything…so chose wisely…and take names. AND HAVE FUN!
One last point. I chose not to attend the NAR Conference in San Diego. I live only 2 hours north, but I decided not to go. For me, I had just gotten my business up and running (thanks to Marc and Brian). What was I going to do? Walk around trying to get sold a bunch of crap that I don’t need. Attend a few lectures on how to use FB, Twitter, and SM in general. Attend a bar camp?
Nope! Instead, I took my wife, son, and her parents to Hawaii for a week during the NAR Conference. Trust me, it was far more beneficial for MY business (and my sanity).
Thanks to all those for reading my rant. I think that there are endless ways to be successful in SM as so many of you have stated.
Thanks to Marc again…
Darryl,
You said “And I think that we all agree that face-to-face cannot be replaced in building true clientele.”
While that may be true for you, it is not true for me or generally. I could never get face to face with as many people in person as I do by bloggging and tweeting. Blogging brings me “true clientele” often and consistently. They don’t call to “see a house”. They call to hire me as their agent and ask if I might consider accepting them as a client.
You underestimate the power and value of “social media”.
I use twitter to get material for blogging, to quickly catch up on news and hot topics, and to generally meet more and more interesting people. The more you can be the same person you are in person, on the internet, the less there will be any difference at all.
Typing accurately without spellcheckers at 160 words a minute helps a lot
Darryl-
Marc and Brian are the men –and would drink their kool-aid–hoping it would be Veuve Rose, of course.
“And I think that we all agree that face-to-face cannot be replaced in building true clientele.”
Why not use SM to facilitate face-to-face contact? I’ve met (in real life) close to 300 local, non-real estate people, in prime home buying/selling demographics simply by attending various “tweet ups”.
That’s not a bad expansion of a SOI.
And yes, I’ve helped some buy and/or sell homes.
Kev –
Make that kool-aid a 21 year old single malt Scotch and you’re on!
I met Jay online, and knew him a very long time online, before meeting him face to face. There was no difference, except that we could hug for real
Our relationship today would be exactly the same whether I had met him “in person” or not.
I met Kevin online and he was already like a son to me by the time we met “in person”.
For Gen Yers this is a stupid discussion. They already know that texting someone, tweeting with them, sharing facebook pics with them, is the same as face to face. I’ve tested this many, many times and face to face is the same as online, as long as the people are not adopting a false persona online.
That is why being genuine and authentic in your Social Media is key.
And the first time I met ARDELL “IRL” it was like two long-time friends reuniting.
It’s a stupid conversation for “millineals” too. Case in point, my 16 year old daughter. Met a girl IRL who was visiting a friend. They talked for about 10 minutes face-to-face. The girl went back to New York, and she and my daughter began texting and facebooking. They are now *solid* best friends — to the point where my daughter went to NY for two weeks in the summer and she’s coming here for a week at Christmas.
You absolutely, without question, can “meet” people on-line and form very strong personal, and business, relationships.
I’ve sold dozens of homes to Canadian buyers. They found me through the blog (or {gasp!} Twitter), and we increased our understanding of each other, and they gained confidence in me, through various social media outlets.
Jay, was it you who sold a home to Frenchman who found you through your blog a year or two ago?
I believe it was and found that fascinating in the wake of the big local brands that you are surrounded by.
it was interesting to watch the convo go from lofty goals of education and advance “causes to the righting the reputation of Realtors TO looking for clients.
#loveit.
dredge, bitches, dredge!
All great points everyone.
I agree that SM can be an important “strategy” in building business if not only for building relationships and spreading good information.
My main point is that the human element will reveal itself either through a face-to-face or online interaction. Just as meeting people in real life doesn’t make you automatically like that person and vice-versa, it takes on an evolution in building the relationship either on or offline.
I am using SM to network, create new contacts and prospects, and spread the word about my brokerage, BUT at the end of the day, it’s all about profitability. If SM is making you profitable then even better.
Jay, I know your story. It’s awesome. You decided to take a chance and leave your old broker to do your own thing. But your blogging, etc had created the means for you to successfully merge (I hope I’m not putting words in your mouth). That was probably what really help you become a large success with the help of your past clients and referrals.
Today, the business climate is MY best advantage bar none…as a start up.
Oh yeah, I am sharing my blog posts on some great local sites, and I have attended a few networking and charity events from the contacts that I’ve made locally via Twitter, FB, and blogging. I am going to host a Tweetup after the Holidays too.
Here we go with the anecdotal twitter and face book sales stories!
Homegain has a client who will sell 350 homes this year using HomeGain-that’s almost one home a day.
We have 40+customers who have made over $500K in commissions.
We don’t see those types of results on SM
The reason-its SOCIAL MEDIA-not business media.
HomeGain’s primary purpose is to help connect consumers with agents so transactions happen. That’s not the purpose of facebook or twitter
As Jay says you can get businss from social media but that is not its primary purpose.
It seems ardell also uses social media to do business and support people she likes-not necessarily to make as much money as possible.
Good for you.
My conclusion-if you like SM, engage in it, take courses in it, give courses in it, but don’t ever say its the most powerful business tool on the planet-it isnt-at least not now.
BTW Ardell homegain and the world have changed a lot in five years.
Five years ago George Bush was in his first term and Brad inman owned and operated homegain. Please take note.
Marc – Yes, that was me.
Kevin / Louis – my getting clients via Twitter (I’m not a FB’er) is indeed anecdotal. I firmly believe that (other than a blog) SM outlets are not well suited for prospecting or marketing. I don’t think anyone will ever remotely approach significant volume if all they use are non-blog SM tools. But you CAN use it to supplement your business. And clearly, you don’t HAVE to.
In my MLS area in 2008, a full 39% of licensed agents had ZERO sales. Sadly, the 9 homes alone that I sold where the primary contact was via Twitter would have put me in the top 20% of all agents here. THAT is a pretty telling stat for the state of our business. It’s not a call for everyone to use SM, that’s a call for agents to get off their ass and work.
Darryl – you didn’t put words in my mouth. You’re pretty much spot on.
“But don’t ever say its the most powerful business tool on the planet-it isnt-at least not now.”
I agree. This is what drives my ranting. These claims are the very things some SM gurus are spouting and this is the stuff I will never back down from harping on. I heard one SM guy tell a broker that if they don’t get on SM now, they’ll be gone in 3 years. This is the stuff that’s like fingernails on the chalk board to me.
But SM is a pretty darn powerful communication tool Louis. It puts the power of messaging into the hands of the messenger. But power can corrupt or destroy as many in real estate have become powerful SM smack addicts, twittering themselves out of jobs and facebooking themselves out of business.
For others, it’s becomes a tool. Part of their utility belt of business weapons. And certainly, SM is something that can easily sit side by side with the canon that is Homegain.
Marc,
Why is that more “fascinating” than me owning my own little company helping 30+ men from India and Romania, et al, who work at Microsoft as a result of blogging? Just curious. I also ask because it is important to celebrate the Mr. Everyman who is better able to access good agents, regardless of company “brand”, because of the expanded info and knowledge visible on the web.
Is one Bill Gates really worth more than 20 of his employees? Not really.
@Jay,
That’s what I thought. Care to share that sale? Care to share the cost to acquire that sale?
I know the power of homegain and I would not diminish it here or elsewhere. But Homegain require time, effort, and dollars and from it there is a measurable ROI. This model is a prudent, effective strategy for real estate business.
But as you will see from Jay should he divulge, his commission earned came by way of almost no effort and very little if really any cost to acquire.
My point being, there are several ways to skin this, each requiring a certain skill and dedication and objective.
While Homegain is clearly more of a pure business move which should be taken seriously, SM is more and socializing and as I advise it, branding. However, when done correctly or actually not even correctly at times, SM can provide an ancillary surprise gift of a sale. And that, Louis, is very, very alluring to Realtors and something worth understanding and learning.
It’s like finding $10 lying around in the dryer. Once i learned about to make that happen every time, I stopped checking my pockets before doing the wash.
ARDELL,
Have been emailing me behind the scenes for the last two days asking me what’s up? Why am I so hostile? What’s my problem with Lublin.
For the record SM is great. I’ve closed two $6M deals from either the blog or my Web site. I don’t know—same difference and WHO CARES.
I DM’d Ardell earlier in the day after she asked my why I was so “hell bent, et al. I said “why didn’t you ask Marc that question?” That was spot on, I thought..
But until now, w/Marc’s last comment: >>These claims are the very things some SM gurus are spouting and this is the stuff I will never back down from harping on. I heard one SM guy tell a broker that if they don’t get on SM now, they’ll be gone in 3 years. This is the stuff that’s like fingernails on the chalk board to me.<<
This has been my b*tch hence my suggestion of a black box Warning: "Results May Vary."
Now, Marc because YOU said it everyone will lay off me now.
Hey—let's advance SM and real estate at the same time–we'll do it together: No more use of word 'rock star' or 'guru.' That should do a lot to add some PROFESSIONALISM to the movement.
If I hired @chrisbrogan to speak—I'd introduce him as "Chris Brogan." I would think of him as a independent contractor. After his presentation, I'd review his presentation, and cut him the check for his fee. That's it.
I would not stalk him on Twitter, nor RT everything he tweets.
ROFLMAO.
Marc and there in lies where you agree with
Kevin and Daryl.
Its a matter of priority of where you spend your time.
If your priority is to make money by selling real estate and make millions or just to pay the bills, social media could be a not optimal use of your time.
If your priority is to make money off social media by giving courses or holding conferences about it-then you have your priorities straight
If your priority is to make friends on online, go to tweet ups, bar camps, teach others for the joy of it or to help make the world a better place or to feel good about HOW you conduct busines, SM may be at the top of your list.
If it is to supplement your marketing, or because you enjoy it-have fun.
Should it be a top priority of REAL ESTATE agents to give or take SM training in order for them to grow their sales? Probably not.
Could it be useful? Definetly.
SM however, should NOT at the top of the list of skills a Realtor needs in order to make money selling real estate.
Seems like Bill L was making money and was a success years before the word social media was ever uttered.
From reading here it appears that the reasons to engage and learn about social media have less to do with selling real estate or being a real estate agent and more to do with personal growth and social good -(which I know can help one become a better real estate agent
Poll:
Who in here is going to ICNYC?
No snark needed either.
I have tickets/resi’s but really on the fence. I mean REALLY.
@Ardell,
It’s not more fascinating. It’s just that I am allowed only one “fascinating” comment per post and Jay got it because his story sticks out for me as it was the very first one I heard about an agent getting business from their blog.
But what you report is a dazzling spectacle of success that is testimony to the time, effort, skill and resolve you had in learning how to do SM right.
And probably something Louis will try to rip to shreds. (Give Ardell a break man!)
Nevertheless, you were, are and will continue to be a beacon for others.
@ marc and care to ask Jay HOW MANY such sales he made in such fashion?-probably the same number of times as you find $10 in your dryer!!
I agree these types of triumphs give us pleasure-we feel as the world works and good fortune and luck have come our way.
Indeed “free” twitter deals, finding a quarter in the phone booth or $10 in the dryer may feel better emotionally than getting a commission check, but when it come time to pay the bills or meet payroll don’t count on finding Mr. Hamilton replicating in your dryer.
@Marc
I can’t give ARdell a break I got ANOTHER email comment that Ardell posted that somehow did not get posted here again saying that homegain was a joke because five or so years ago its stated purpose was to dismiss realtors and make them price them selves out of business. (i’ll forward the email to you)
It was the second such comment from Ardell based on her “knowledege” of homegain based on five + years ago.
If she wants to criticize homegain, she should at least check out its current status.
IF social media is about conversation, one should at least have some basis from which to have an opinion-one that is based on relatively recent information.
I’m lovin watching Louis ride Jay. Finally I’m out of the frying pan.
@Kevin
I am not going…
oh this is getting good. Where’s @tcar? I need a mini Diet Coke.
@Anyone
anyone catch what @tcar had for lunch today?
Inquiring agents want, no, NEED to know!
Louis,
Was it Chicken Soup for his Social Soul?
@ Louis,
I don’t really care how many times Jay did it.
I’m happy Jay did it once.
Or however many times he has.
The point is it happened outside of trying to make it happen. If that was the only deal he ever did and then sat around for two years waiting for the blog to land other deal, that would be sad. But that would be his sadness. Not yours or mine.
Look man, there are other ways to make deals in RE outside of Homegain. And when those happen, I for one am happy about that. It tells me that over the course of real estate’s 100+ years or tradition, we are now living during a time when the Realtor, known for hating change, for never changing, for being unable to relate to the consumer in any way, has made the move toward change.
It might be small. It might be frivolous. It might not measure up to your standards of change. But dammit it’s something. And it’s worth supporting. Even it doesn’t blimp on someone financial radar.
And maybe, as a result of all the things going on here, and all the people doing their part to move this paradigm forward just a hair, ten years from now, as a result of Ardell, Jay, Darryl, Bill, Jeff, Kevin, you and everyone else commenting or just reading and pondering, real estate might look different.
Perhaps better.
Pipe dream?
Maybe.
Pass me a lighter.
now go hit it!
Marc
I am glad you are passionate about this. I am in NO WAY opposed to people being on or using social media or teaching it or learning about it.
I respect that Ardell does businss the way she choses to do in the manner in which pleases her.-
I respect that Bill having had a successful re career is giving back to the industry.
I respect Jay for also doing things HIS way and avoiding the hard sell.
I respect you for facilitating discussion and thought
I respect Kevin for sticking to his guns and opining where he thinks SM facility falls in the list of important attributes of a successful re agent.
I respect @tcar for his 10,000+ tweets
If I missed any one I don’t mean to dis anyone other than ROb Hahn!
whom I left out intentionally.
Happy twitting and dryer diving, goodnight
Marc –
The story is simple. I wrote a post in the midst of the big Phoenix real estate boom saying it wouldn’t last. A guy working for Motorola in France was transferring to Phoenix, found the post, said he appreciated an agent that was honest and wasn’t afraid to say “now is a pretty lousy time to buy”.
And he bought (he didn’t have a lot of choice). I don’t remember the exact numbers. He was a high level manager and bought at about 3x the median value (somewhere around a million — what he bought, not our median!).
He also referred two of his friends in similar situations, and we sold his home when he transferred back.
Cost? It was one of the few time I could contribute a specific contact and sale to a specific post. Maybe 30 minutes of time.
But, that’s not to say that any one blog post is going to bring in a buyer. Yes, it can, just like one piece of direct mail can. But usually in either case it’s an accumulation of time and effort (and cost in the case of direct mail, and yes Louis, for Homegain — you’re not giving it away. Nor should you).
Marc said, “But Homegain require time, effort, and dollars and from it there is a measurable ROI.”
Blogging requires a LOT of time and a LOT of effort too. Not many hard dollars, but time and effort are money.
Louis asks, “care to ask Jay HOW MANY such sales he made in such fashion?”
I don’t even know the answer to that question. Was it pure dumb luck the guy from France found that blog post? I don’t think so. It was written specifically for and about the Phoenix market, and he was looking in the Phoenix market. That post, and 1,400 others and the time and effort to write those and write well enough (or timely enough) to garner 80K+ backlinks isn’t just dumb luck.
Of course I’ve gotten lucky at times. It’s happened several times. But far more often it’s an accumulation of hard work. And I know you know that.
I could use the same argument for the person who sold 350 homes via Homegain, or for the Homegain $500K club. Those are astounding numbers, but can you share how many Homegain members had zero sales? Or how many drop out of the program because “it doesn’t work”?
I’m not poo-poo’ing Homegain. It’s a viable way to generate business. Probably more viable than any one specific social media tool (with the possible exception of a well executed blog over time). But surely the 350 sales or the 40+ with $500K in commissions is the exception, not the rule. I’m pretty sure there are significantly more than 42 Homegain subscribers out there.
I won’t do $500K in commissions from my blog and other SM avenues this year. That’s a tough nut to crack in a market where the median price of a home sold in the last 30 days is $131K. But we’re doing well, hiring agents, feeding them “leads”. The brokerage’s goal for 2010 is 250 sides, but I’m about to up that to 300.
That’s not too bad for a few blogs and some twittering in one of the hardest hit markets in the country.
Kevin – I’ll be at ICNY. Would love to sit down with ya and have a chat about all things real estate. Maybe we could even hit up a few places and check in on FourSquare together.
Again…like it’s been said, there are so many ways to use SM as a tool for business, networking, educating, dating, etc. This is a fairly recent medium, certainly for the r.e. biz.
It’s not much different than how other new ways of communication developed through the years (print advertising, direct mail, pagers, cell phones, pda’s). My point is that the early adopters will figure things out pretty quickly…they usually do. The rest of the population will come on board as they see SM become beneficial to them (however that is).
I’m a big believer in the 80/20 rule. Obviously, I’m no expert, but I think it makes sense to focus on whatever SM platform gives you the most results consistently. Personally, I’m having more success on FB.
Was it coincidental that when I arrived at my 20th high school reunion this fall I had approx 25 people call me out by my company name? Nope. I had devised a well thought out FB announcement of my brokerage only 3 or 4 days in advance of the reunion. It was “top of mind” for these alumni. And I now have several new clients and two separate offers (with escrows pending) from this one event.
My New Years Resolution…
“To master a new SM strategy that entails me building a solid relationship with my bank deposit teller multiple times a week!”
No Hamiltons Louis…just Benjies, lotsa Benjies!!!
Sorry I took a break guys – Needed to see AI and the boys trounce Golden State last night.
@Ardelld You asked “A large majority of agents will likely say and do the wrong things using Social Media, at least initially. What do you say to the Owner-Brokers and companies about why they should risk that negative exposure to their brand? Aren’t they better off steering clear of Social Media. Maybe not banning it”but not pushing it either?” – The answer for the company – in my mind is “If you don’t trust your people to use social media, you probably shouldn’t trust them to talk or use the phone” – And I don;t think ignoring trends is a good idea in business at any time.
The answer for SMMI as a business was to work on a Social Media for Managers course (SM3) – Which addresses risk management, social media policies for companies, how to manage people in your company that are using social media- and a variety of other topics -(I also created a presentation about it Called “Lead follow or Get out of the Web” It adds nothing to my answer I just love the title and wanted to share it here
@Darryl – There’s nothing wrong with spending your time doing whatever works for your business and fills you day – the big problem I have with the negative SM discussions is that they have an either/or positioning to them. Either you use traditional marketing or you use social media – and that’s just silly – Why not use whatever mix works best for you?
I like social media marketing better than some forms of traditional marketing because it costs less, has some permanence, creates a body of content to allow you to be found, and allows me to use skills that I developed long before personal computers were practical. I believe that if people are going to do that, they can benefit from training on how to do that in a responsible, ethical, effective and sustainable manner. I also believe (and we discuss in our course) that social media can be a great way to start a relationship, as well as a tool to execute on those relationships by meeting off-line. And I believe to the core of my being, from my life experience that those relationships that start on-line are no less strong or valid than the ones that start because you met face to face. (I could go further but it gets maudlin) Its really that simple – so why the all of the adversity?
I think an informed business person keeps up on as many ways as possible to enhance and improve their business. And I think that a prudent business person will recognize the impact of the democratization of publishing, the benefits of low or no cost marketing, and the inevitable introduction of social media in every iteration it will take as we connect more and more in virtual ways as well as face to face. I will take a cheap shot here and point out that my relationships with everyone on this thread are a result of social media, and that my sphere of influence and yours have all been affected by our interaction – who knows what that may mean to our business careers? For Jay and I it means we keep getting confused by people who meet me face to face and think I’m Jay because I have a moustache (even though he’s younger, handsomer, and lives where it doesn’t snow)
And that’s why social media will have a place in my life – it enriches it on both the business and personal level.
But my position on YOUR use of social media is really simple- if you don’t like social media – don’t participate. If you like social media and want to be trained, take one of SMMI’s courses (or not – I just think we offer good courses and do a good job teaching them) If you like Social Media and don’t want to be trained, Good Luck- but I’m going to finish my phone conversation with my friend @tboard and then get on the treadmill!
Cheers!
@Jay wrote:”But surely the 350 sales or the 40+ with $500K in commissions is the exception, not the rule. I’m pretty sure there are significantly more than 42 Homegain subscribers out there.”
Indeed there are more than just 42 homegain subscribers -I just noted the top performers.
We can also count nearly ONE THOUSAND AGENTS who have made over $50K using Homegain.
From the HomeGain Press release of Dec 2 2009
HomeGain also announced the induction of 16 HomeGain member agents into its other elite clubs, including:
Five new HomeGain Platinum Club members (now totaling 352 members who have earned $125,000 or more in gross home sale commissions from AgentEvaluator)
Six new HomeGain Gold Club members (totaling 279 members who have earned $75,000 or more)
Five new HomeGain Silver Club members (totaling 231 members who have earned $50,000 or more)
There are currently two members in the HomeGain Million Dollar Club.
http://www.homegain.com/press_center/press_releases/show_release?pr_year=2009&pr=2009_12_02
SM does NOT stack up to HomeGain by a long shot as a way of generating business.
That’s not said to demean its value.
However, many in the SM crowd demean HomeGain in spite of our advocacy of real estate agents and our proven ability to help them earn commissions.
@kevin
I guess I still don’t get it. After 22 years in the real estate business listing and selling, running a 4 office company, running a 40 office franchise network, working on the “vendor” side of the business, doing financial business consulting…I just don’t understand what it takes to be successful in this business, speaking of what “btw, you know nothing about:”
I didn’t say you needed to be friends to do business, YOU said “I don’t take on clients that I don’t like.” and that is all I was saying. People don’t work with people they don’t like. I’m sure there are many people who like you and your ability. If you are only going to work with the group of individuals who can afford $5mil and up, fantastic. But that isn’t reality for 99.98% of the real estate salesperson population. Most of these folks, even the professionial, capable, qualified ones, need to be able to engage clients across many demographics in order to make a good living.
Teaching people to have good social skills, I believe, is essential to success. Social Media, facebook and the rest, is just the medium. Teaching the skills regardless of the medium is where the value is but I bet if you design a perfectly acceptable course around the very same skill set but called it “How to attract clients and customers at your next neighborhood picnic” it might be less than full. I’m willing to bet there were folks who said “TV? I don’t sell my product because some guy saw Sid Ceasar on that box last night! I sell my product because I am a damned good salesman!” Hell, there are still salespeople who don’t have a cell phone but that doesn’t make it a complete waste of time.
BTW, I wish I could buy a new car when the fuel pump goes out on mine. Good for you, champ. Do you buy a new house when the toilet backs up too?
@Marc
Pictures of the Gretsch are on the way. As to why not a 6120, it was a little matter of 2 grand. He loves that 5120 and from everything I read, it is the very best you can buy for that kind of money.
The need for more quality education is paramount now that huge waves of real estate agents are charting a new course in social media. Early adopters in blogging and other platforms had the field to themselves for a long time and real estate agents not on SM were busy selling real estate.
I find it interesting to see many of the same faces at REBar camps around the country. Clearly there is a social media elite I refer to affectionately as “Bloggerazzi.” Those who have been working in SM and blogging for years can probably agree on a list. In fact, one of the Twitter lists I am building is for “Bloggerazzi.” (This is a work in progress, so please do not be offended if you are not there yet.
Mainstream real estate conferences feature top producing agents, many six- and seven-figure income earners who do NOT use social media and have no idea who the Bloggerazzi are. What they want to know now is, “Why should I do this and what is the ROI?”
Social media educators teach how to understand the culture of differing social media platforms and help chart a course to increased production. The “quality of life” answer alone is not going to sway the ranks of good business people on the real estate Net.
Adapting to social media cultures is paramount to achieving success theere. I think social media cultures are undergoing a seismic shift arising from the demands of good business sense applied to participation there.
Snake oil may be a harsh term for many real estate educators but I confess I buy into that concept and grumble to myself on a regular basis. One of my pet peeves is the lack of strategy applied to social media engagement.
My Facebook friend requests come in clusters from real estate agents in the same towns, brand new to Facebook following their Realtor Facebook training classes. They are collecting real estate agents as friends by the dozens every day, smack out of real estate training, diving head first into frenzied peer-to-peer engagement.
The scant few agents I know who do NOT friend other Realtors report dollar productive success. Some of those agents started out with that strategy and others unfriended their real estate friends on their profile pages.
Successful real estate bloggers tell me they are re-thinking their Facebook friending strategy because their engagement there is primarily peer-to-peer and they do not see dollar productive results in their real estate business. Few agents generate a referral business warranting large blocks of time engaging with other real estate agents.
Social media education is not a one-size-fits-all formula, as Bill says. Management training is essential with increasing emphasis on risk management.
Social media discussions need to be niched more and that will be a way to find a good source providers and avoid the “snake oil.” Niche programs with goals and prescribed courses of action will be most valuable – management social media training with a focus on recruiting and retention, social media risk management, using social media to build a referral base, integrating lending and real estate sales referrals via social media.
Great discussion, Marc. Wonderful thoughts from an insightful crew.
I said you don’t know **my** biz.
You said: >>But that isn’t reality for 99.98% of the real estate salesperson population. <>I agree. This is what drives my ranting. These claims are the very things some SM gurus are spouting and this is the stuff I will never back down from harping on. I heard one SM guy tell a broker that if they don’t get on SM now, they’ll be gone in 3 years. This is the stuff that’s like fingernails on the chalk board to me. <<
ARDELL et al have sent me DM's and comments saying "why are you so hell bent…"
I love SM. I do very, very well from SM. I'm not dredging for consumers in there. I'm doing something else and it is working flawlessly.
What I'm hell bent on is Marc's comment above.
Telling agents they NEED to do it because there at 58Trillion people on FB is NOT education..
The majority of gurus and rockstars spout that stuff like, well, SNAKEOIL.
Frances,
I would clearly not be the agent I am today, if I had not first participated heavily in peer to peer engagement with Real Talk back in 1998 – 2006 or so.
“Success” comes in many forms, and having a huge pool of agent and lender resources to exchange ideas with, makes us better agents for our clients. That is why Social Media is important for all agents, and not just those who seek to gain business there.
Just as we hope to expand the knowledge base about our industry to consumers, we also learn from others in Social Media about many, many things.
I firmly believe that being involved in Social Media makes you a better agent. You will be a better agent for your clients, whether those clients come from Social Media or not.
Louis,
I agree there are many who demean Homegain, I am one of them, though I don’t go out of my way to do so. But you purchased that legacy, from the time when Homegain demeaned agents regularly. Your blatant self promotion during a conversation about social media, and your demeaning of social media, does little for your cause. Saying that with sincere caring and compassion. Your Homegain commercials are off topic and a clear example of how NOT to use social media. This discussion IS social media.
I would clearly not be the agent I am today If I did not have such great looks.
#justsayin
“I would clearly not be the agent I am today If I did not have such great looks.”
LMAO! You’re a funny guy Kev. You make me laugh, and that’s a good thing. Seriously though, true story… you and I were chatting with someone (I can’t remember who) at Connect NYC. You walked away and I remember turning to that other person and saying, “Damn, I wish I looked like that guy”.
Hey man, if ya got it, flaunt it. If I was a good looking guy or a hot chick that would be incorporated into my marketing. Maybe that makes me shallow, but it’s business…
Louis,
Sorry, I missed your comment above regarding an email you received.
Perhaps this will help you with knowing “where I’m coming from”. I believe it is our duty, and charge for the privilege, to help consumers get the best value for their money, and for us [the industry] to work towards lowest possible cost with highest possible care, skill, knowledge and attention to the consumer’s stated goals.
I have watched for 20 years the agent portion get easier. I have watched for 20 years vendors coming in and getting the piece of the pie that should have trickled down to the consumer. Why has technology not made the cost lower for consumers? Because agents will throw that money at vendors and “bottom feeders” and to each other as hefty referral fees, before they will let it trickle down to the consumer’s advantage.
From first hand experience I have heard an agent refuse to pay $50 for their client in a real estate transaction. Then, in the next breath, say I LOVE referrals, being more than happy to hand over $5,000 to another agent as a referral fee and not one thin dime to or for their buyer client. Something is wrong with that. When I see a wrong, I want to be part of the fix.
I’m not going to look at any model that does not support change for the good. Change for the good in my mind has nothing at all to do with good for the agents, it has to do with good change for consumers. Period.
Social Media is a good change for consumers.
Hi Ardell
Thanks for the comments. I would agree its mixing apples and oranges to bring up homegain while talking about social media and out of place.
What started this discussion, however, arose from a distaste of some people selling or insisting that social media is a powerful business tool.
Neither you nor Jay have made those points, nor has Bill.
Indeed, you have argued eloquently for the non financial benefits of social media.
“SM does NOT stack up to HomeGain by a long shot as a way of generating business.”
I’ve never claimed it did Louis.
You frequently mention no one makes real money via SM, then you frequently mention the small fraction of HG members that do.
I’m assuming it’s a small fraction because I’ve never heard anyone mention HG’s churn rate or what percentage make little to nothing with it.
I’ll grant you though that HG’s wild successes far outweigh what anyone does with SM (again, with the exception, potentially, of blogging. Blogging and twitter, FB, et al aren’t in the same league when it comes to revenue generation).
Ardell wrote:
“Social Media is a good change for consumers.”
No argument there…
@Jay you wrote:”SM does NOT stack up to HomeGain by a long shot as a way of generating business.”
I’ve never claimed it did Louis.”
I never said you did! – See above
“What started this discussion, however, arose from a distaste of some people selling or insisting that social media is a powerful business tool.
Neither you nor Jay have made those points, nor has Bill.”
Come on Louis. I’m not going to go back through 200 comments to prove it, but I’m certain I’ve said several times in this discussion that much of SM isn’t the way to untold wealth. And I know I’ve said same publicly before.
I *know* I posted a link in this thread to an article I wrote saying exactly this.
I know I mentioned walking away in conferences when some SM gurus tout it as the best or only solution.
With proper execution and follow up, there’s no question in my mind HG works. If I were talking to an agent looking to expand their business, I would recommend HG as a viable option (I have done exactly that, on numerous occasions).
I also recommend blogging to agents looking to expand their business, particularly if they can’t afford the hard dollar cost of something like HG. I never do this without the caveat that blogging is a shitload of work, takes a lot of time and effort, and is not for everyone.
Kinda like HomeGain.
I *hate* when “gurus” pimp SM as the be-all-to-end-all solution. I think it demeans what I do with it. More importantly, I know they are wrong. I cringe when I see agents using old-school techniques in the SM space as it tends to make us all look like dolts.
So I’ll say it again…
Social media is not for everyone. It’s not the Yellow Brick Road leading to the land of Oz. But it can be, for some people, a weapon in the war of building a business.
Jay
I love a good laugh. One from the depths of my belly. That’s why people think I’m drunk on Twitter. But I’m just really humoring myself over here.