I’m no Abe Lincoln. I don’t posses his self-assurance. Or his legendary judgment. But he taught me the importance of holding two opposing thoughts in my head at the same time – something I was called upon to do this week.
On Monday, I had strong set of beliefs about social media. Today they are altered. While I owe a debt of gratitude to Lincoln for showing me the importance of having an open mind, I have someone to thank for filling it with brightness: Bill Lublin.
Chicken soup for the social soul
Like chicken soup, beliefs tend be as any Jewish grandmother would advise, a little bit of this mixed with a whole lot of that and cooked over heat for a long period of time.
And, like chicken soup, beliefs can sometimes be a bit cloudy.
After speaking with Bill yesterday (which turned out be a historically long phone call where time passed far too quickly) my beliefs on social media poured through his cheesecloth.
Today, they are clarified.
For the record, I take this social media thing pretty seriously. But only because of the threat I feel it presents to brokers and agents when pitched by overzealous promoters who use everything from exaggerated success stories to scare tactics to sell whatever it is they’re selling.
I saw this occur during the 90′s, when real estate discovered the Internet, and in the early part of this decade when technology salespeople were peddling crack disguised as ambrosia. So many real estate people bought into goods that were anything but. Thankfully, karma has a way of working things out and while most real estate people are still around, many of the vendors that sold snake oil aren’t.
But there are always new ones emerging.
Tugging at me to sound the alarm.
Warning. Warning.
I was not alone in this concern. Real Estate Tomato launched in an effort to provide products and education for emerging bloggers. As did Internet Crusade and Active Rain. Leading Real Estate Companies of the World swiftly reacted with concern, creating the blogging platform Propopoly to better enable agents to blog safely through the use of their editorial and legal eye. Frances Flynn Thorsen and her firm created social media policies to bring some order to the discussion.
All around me geysers of goodness where springing forth. But I was skeptical. I had beliefs. And I kept to them. Despite emerging facts around me.
SMMI
When SMMI launched, delivering a social media program wrapped around a 2-day course that culminates with a social media designation, my skepticism was unwavering. Fueled by other cynics both inside and outside the industry who paid too much attention to the negative aspects of social media, I found myself focusing so intensely on the bad I failed to acknowledge the good.
Then I spoke to Bill this week. And it might very well stand out as the best phone call I’ve had in the 13 years I’ve been in real estate.
Bill told me things that made me laugh. He told me things that made me think. Bill also told me things that made me cry (Bill, that long pause of silence while you were speaking was me trying like hell to compose myself).
After the call, I shut down my computer. No wait, first I ate some humble pie and DM’d a few people. There are more on my list like Ginger, Jeff, Jim and bunch more who I now understand a whole lot better than I ever allowed myself too. Thanks to Bill Lublin. And Abe Lincoln.
Then I went home.
I hugged my wife.
A little tighter than I normally do.
I was wrong
As it turns out, my beliefs are still in tact. And my instincts about social media are not wrong actually. At least according to Bill, whom I learned shares the very same passions and concerns I do.
Where I have been remiss is not realizing how many more advocates there are in real estate who are looking out for everyone’s best interest. If only I just paid a little more attention, or as Todd suggested on Twitter, get a little social media training of my own, I might have recognized it. Damn straight Todd. I was blind.
I see better today.
- Davison
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@rob @marc
This is exactly what I was thinking >>
I do mean, however, that there’s a fundamental conflict within the” ah” what to call it” “social media marketing established wisdom”. On the one hand, it’s about being yourself and being transparent; on the other hand, we’re advised to avoid pitfalls and mistakes. What gives?<<
Marc, having just been enlightened, I think it's kind of curious that you are already second-guessing "being yourself."
I'm an ass, I'm annyoing. I know it. I own it.
Sometimes I piss some people off–or people think I'm a jerk–but as many SM people have spewed from the apparent new testament of SM –"Well maybe we wouldn't be good friends, anyway!"
@Rob
Our platform is very flexible.
I’m working through your questions Rob. As always they are insightful and a catalyst for more conversation.
Also, totally appreciate the shoulder pat regarding Laurie’s comment. Yeah, that shook me for a loop. The irony is, you try to be as transparent as possible and people look for the lies.
As for the focus, good call and thanks. No I did not lose that. And maintain a stringent course of action when applied in a business sense. Across the board. (Good call)
My new position is… well it’s not a position so much as it is an understanding if you will of the segmentations in SM. There’s business application and there’s social application. And there’s fine lines ‘tween the two where sometimes they intersect and sometimes they don’t.
What drives this industries love affair with SM is varied. For some it’s a diversion. A placebo that makes them feel like they are doing something – working if you will – when they aren’t selling. For others it’s a pure ego play as the climb up the celebrity ladder can be powerfully addictive. For others SM is simply an outlet to write, communicate connect because it’s inherent in their DNA. And more.
What it becomes, what and where it’s ultimate successes are will reveal themselves for sure as you put it – in good time.
Louis – I suspect if they are buffoons in the social media space, they are indeed buffoons in life. Sadly, this industry is full of that. You should have seen the trade floor at NAR San Diego. It made me want to puke.
I think Rob nailed it. They are trying to be REALTORS and not human beings.
It’s entirely possible (probable more likely) that the hard selling, smarmy tactics so many take can’t be “untrained”.
I’m holding out hope the industry can be changed, even if it’s one agent and one brokerage at a time. Maybe that’s a pipe dream, but I’m sticking to it!
Louis,
I’ve thought that but I’ve considered the fact that for so many agents who know how to act at a party, when they approach SM, they do so as marketers not as social humans. Maybe they can’t be taught to be Scoble and maybe they’ll never land a deal from it. But education could also include guidance that might keep them from spending 12 hour a day Facebooking themselves out of business.
Brian – LOL.
Rob, sure man. If this will help the attendee I’m in. But I’ll need to change my flight in for Monday and make sure Lori is okay with me being gone all week.
Marc
Training and education in general should always be viewed favorably. But in the long line of things that Realtors need training in, perhaps social media is not at the top of the list.
Perhaps its the very thing needed, if done right, could it not be a segue, a foundation to improving all the other things in need of repair?
This is what I am considering and working through as I go.
If you come in on Monday, I promise we’ll do some sickass Korean BBQ and drink tons of soju… and talk some highfalutin’ theory shit.
I bet I could charge admission to that dinner…
-rsh
Marc
That’s one angle of approaching/prioritizing an action plan.
In a week you might feel differently
Uh, Katz and Manischewitz bro.
I have a weak stomach!
And if we charge admission, maybe we can use it to buy Max the Gorilla some new digs.
@Marc AND @Rob I’ll send my donation in lieu of attendence.
Jay
Ur stuff makes me think, too. It all does. Many times I think I need a class or two after some of the stuff I write….
But I’m me. I’m annoying, abrasive and speak my mind. Love me or not. I’m at peace w/me.
Good night.
Marc, it takes a lot of courage to write a post like this. You’ve talked a great deal about understanding your values in the past. Today you demonstrated yours. I’m impressed.
@Marc: You don’t do anything by half-measures do you? Your post gave me some emotional moments of my own – and had I not been celebrating the holiday with my family, I would have gotten here to respond a little earlier, but its been a long work week and I was bushed last night.
@Rob; To answer your very early question (comment 2)Much of our conversation was about who we (Marc & I) are, what we believe, and why we believe it. And what I found out (and I believe Marc did too) was that our core values and goals were amazingly similar. And by the way, I didn’t change Marc’s mind. Marc did – and then, because he is what my Grandfather (and I) would call a “Mensch” he took his change of heart to the public place where his previous position had been taken. (A “mensch” by the way is a guy who acts like a Man – in the finest sense of the word)
@Kevin:
If you think that Marc is drinking anyone’s “kool-aid” you just don’t know Marc. And the fact that he has a position you don’t agree with doesn’t make him the mindless follower that statement would indicate.
Yes SMMI is a business. Our primary business is providing education in how to use social media marketing in an responsible, ethical and effective manner. The fact that it is a business does not in any way diminish its goal or its message. SMMI was created because there is a huge gap between being able to use Social Media and being able to use it well. Lately I have been using the analogy of driving a car. An eight year old (if they are physically large enough) can get into a car, turn on the ignition, put the car in gear, accelerate and brake. But that doesn’t mean they can get where they want to go , avoid running over the family pet, hitting trees or parked cars, or injuring themselves or others.
We believe that Social Media Marketing represents a huge change in the way people communicate and marketing messages will be communicated – in fact it may be the largest change in those things since the universal adoption of television in this country. And an example of that, and the obvious comparison is the way Obama used SM as Kennedy used TV to gain a huge advantage over opponents who didn’t understand the power of the medium.
We don’t advocate dismissing other methods of marketing or tell people that SM is a ‘silver bullet’, but yes, I think that anyone who ignores change does so at their peril, I don’t think that SM is going away – and I do believe that our course provides a benefit for the people who take it.
And just for the record – I have been in adult education for over 30 years, have operated a successful real estate company for 26 years, and have spent over 30 years in professional standards and risk management leadership positions in the local, state, and national associations of REALTORS(all of which I do for the same reason I do social media training – I think its important and I enjoy it)
I would suggest respectfully, that you learn who I am, and take the course before you decide what my motivations are, or what the benefits (or lack of benefit) one derives from taking our course.
@Barrett; Please see my earlier comment about ‘silver bullets” We actually go out of our way to explain that SM is not a silver bullet – I don’t know of any ‘silver bullets’ especially now that the Lone Ranger is retired…
@Dave;
I agree with you that the advocacy, help and community have been in the real estate industry for a long time – in fact the very formation of NAR in 1908 was about advocacy and ethics to a large degree. However I also believe that the democratization of the publishing process that SM represents can provide a huge impact to that community -
We are not ‘Gurus’ and never claimed to be such – we do however have a good course that has significant content – and (as I said to marc) what pleases me about our course is that if every computer on the planet vanished, our students would still be better people (and would have superior business skills)
@Louis; If you had attended any session at a barcamp where I presented on social capital, you would recognize that it is ALL about connecting with communities (where home buyers and sellers and when they are not in a transaction)Industry events of any type cannot be the main purpose of any professionals direction – they can however be a great source of information –
I do disagree with you about other professions not spending time on social media. Real Estate is not the only vertical where we operate, and believe that SM is a great tool for any small business or professional to increase their sphere of influence and become a well known trusted advisor and influence in the community they desire to serve. Though I do agree that in the final analysis if you don’t deliver a quality product or service, marketing of any sort is moot
@Ardell; I agree with you {{HUGS}}
@Laurie; I had no idea Joel was joining Marc’s company until I noticed the post below this one – I think its great that they are working together and I look forward to what that means to their line of services and products – but it has nothing to do with the conversation Marc & I had
I’ve always been a big believer in “fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me” because I think that you either have to go through life trusting that people are who they say they are, or fearing that they have hidden agendas. I chose the former because I believe that’s the path to a richer life – and I find the times that I’m wrong about that make an insignificant impact on my life.
You really missed the “Marc” in your response here –
Love ya too!
@Rob: People can always benefit from training that teaches them how to more clearly communicate – too many messages don’t have the intended impact or result – and that’s part of what our training does. We spend a really long time on some theory because we believe that while McLuhan was right about the medium being the message, the medium is not the purpose – the message is, and working on how to deliver the message better is important. You’re an amazingly articulate man, and perhaps from that perspective its hard to realize how much goes unsaid, or is misspoken by well intentioned people. Because of the differences in the “psychological bandwidth” of the various SM tools, it gets even a little more complicated and frankly there are a huge number of people that create unintended consequences. I agree with you that a lot of SM information is not applicable to every situation but that doesn’t dismiss the need for people to reach a level of ‘conscious competency’ in their SM interactions so that the response they actually engender is the response they intended. But so far, our students have responded really well to the course material and presentation – and as I said earlier in this too lengthy response, I think it makes them better at communicating outside SM as well.
And am I invited for the Korean BBQ too? I am totally down with your proposed session in NY – but in any case I told Marc I need to have dinner with him when he gets there because I am dying to meet him f2f now – and I’m still upset that I missed you in AC
Oh, and BTW @Louis – If you think REALTORS know how to behave at parties – you might never have been to a place where REALTORS are partying
[...] interesting threads of 2009 sort of blew up this past week over at Marc Davison’s place when he posted a heartfelt mea culpa about his past cynicism about social media. Various heavy-hitter commenters came by and a full [...]
@Bill -
Of course you’re invited! As is everyone else who will be in town on the eve of the 11th
Davison + Lublin at the same dinner??? I can maybe start thinking pay-per-view TV… Hehe.
As to your points, they are well-taken, but instead of hijacking Marc’s thread, I put up a post about them over on Notorious: http://www.notorious-rob.com/2009/12/12/on-social-media-education/
-rsh
Rob,
You mention improvement of “The Product” via social media in your post. In the real estate industry, to a large degree, the product to be improved upon is the agent themselves.
Marc’s post demonstrates (though not its purpose) that Social Media expands one’s own perception and changes the way people think about things.
10 minutes with Bill Lublin can change most anyone’s life and the way they think about things. Social Media expands the number of people who get the opportunity to spend 10 minutes with Bill Lublin.
But beyond that, beyond the Marc Davison’s and the Jeff Turner’s and the Bill Lublin’s and Rob Hahn’s is a much bigger opportunity to expand your knowledge base and thinking. People outside of the industry. My views are more likely changed by the @CarolDNs and the @ElwoodJBlues’ and the @miacupcakes. People outside of the industry who help me push beyond what everyone IS talking about to what people SHOULD be talking about.
As to your wondering if and why agents need training in social media, my view is this. Agents talk with agents and brokers way more and differently than they talk with their clients or in public at a party.
They talk about “capturing leads” and “dripping on people” on a regular basis. Social Media training helps agents understand that when they are talking one on one in with an agent on twitter, hundreds of consumers are hearing them. By learning to speak about people differently in conversations, they actually learn to treat people differently and better in person forevermore.
Social Media provides an enormous opportunity to “improve the Product”, and that product is the agent. Every agent is presented with the opportunity to not only BE who they are, but change who they are, as a result of participating in social media.
Bill, oh Bill, the enlightened one:
I go back w/Marc almost to the beginning. We’ve had a very enlightening relationship over the years. Obviously, you don’t know what ur speaking of here.
I had a long discussion w/a heavy-hitter last night and it was revealed that many people who breathe SM as the second coming–do so believe that Twitter and FB are professional arenas for real estate agents looking for clients or vice versa.
I believe that it is still, very much, a social arena, much like a cocktail party (h/t to @ardelld), for the vast majority.
I would NEVER do biz at a cocktail party– and use only about three biz cards per year. I’m a person first and my profession is not what defines me.
To justify SMMARKETINGInstitute –you fundamentally must believe that SM is definitively a professional arena.
I’ve seen nothing that clearly defines SM as a professional arena.
Lawyers are not told “be who you are, and you’ll be successful.” That’s utter horsecrap.
The stuff that I hear being told to agents at some of these barcamps is not only downright wrong–it does more harm than good–& its mainly by a vendor who is being paid as a speaker.
Phew. My eye hurt from reading this thread.
Rather than weigh in on all of these points individually, let me just say this…
I’m in for Korean BBQ! Let’s continue this conversation over some samgyupsal in NY.
Laurie, Jay, Kevin, Louis, Jeff – hope you all can be there.
Kevin,
Unlike you, my profession does in large part “define me”. Being myself in Social Media could not exclude that professional part of me, anymore than it could exclude the enormous adoration of my children and grand children part of me. And guess what? Just as many people hire me because I love my children that hire me for most any other reason.
Millions of people cut hair well. I choose to go a great distance to someone who cuts hair well who is also the kind of person I want to support in their success. Simply being good at what you do for them is not really enough, and social media helps consumers find those businesses they truly choose to support, and those they do not. The latter is the part you are missing.
You say agents can do themselves more harm than good via social media. Yes! A resounding yes!!! What you fail to see is how that is a GOOD thing. From the perspective of a homebuyer looking for an agent, being able to identify the “salespeople” from the “buyer advocates” is HUGE.
The main reason all agents should participate in social media, and be trained to do that as best they can, is so the public can have a much better tool for choosing one of them. Not so the agent can “capture leads” or “drip on people”. But so the public at large can take control, ignore the people using heavy sales tactics, and choose an agent based on the who they are that is now available for them to see.
The win-win of social media is not about the trainers and the agents…it’s about the public and those trying to sell to them. Pulling your head out of the agent place and into the consumer place is so very difficult for you…and I’m not sure why that is. But I know when I see your emotional level up…you are likely on the brink of change for the good, and kicking and screaming all the way to that better place.
Stop thinking about what works in “your market” and only consider what works “for you” as a person. That’s the best advice I can give. Best I can tell is you are pulled between spending time “doing” social media and doing what most top agents do…which is not social media.
You are having your own personal war with yourself, and you are giving us the privilege of watching that happen. Kudos to you for expressing your angst in public, as many like you who are afraid to say what you say out loud, will learn from it. That IS Social Media, Kev. The reality TV show of Kevin acting out IS social media. What you need to realize is that war is not with any person…it is you fighting with yourself.
The “new” Realtor twittering and doing sm 24/7 is not going to enhance the profession.
Doctors gained respect in the last century (and increased their fees) as a profession when they created professional associations, ditto for lawyers.
NAR is NOT the body to help Realtors to gain respect, but rather scorn.
NAR has jumped on the SM bandwagon instead of promoting Realtors competence and value to the RE transaction.
Could you imagine the American Medical Association or American Bar Association hiring Todd Carpenter to twit about his lunch as a means of promoting the medical or legal services professions?
Professionals are supposed to provide a quality service, they are not necessarily supposed to be your facebook friends or twitter buddies.
I am sorry but attending dozen bar camps, SMII meetings or tweet ups doesn’t make a Realtor any better equipped to do a real estate transaction.
I agree that SM can help forge relationships, make people better, enhance their lives etc and perhaps should be promoted as such.
Realtors need to spend more time not just figuring out how to market to customers but to come up with better ways to demonstrate their value in the real estate transaction-BEYOND “being the local expert” “getting it” and proclaiming “now is the best time to buy a home”.
Louis,
You say: “Professionals are supposed to provide a quality service, they are not necessarily supposed to be your facebook friends or twitter buddies.”
I beg to differ. A real estate transaction goes way beyond “a quality service”, and befriending a client is very important to them. You make a friend and then you help that friend do their very best at buying or selling a house. Without the caring and the friendship, quite frankly, an agent is likely not needed at all. We can easily put the “service” portion into a DIY software program.
The extension of social media is that my clients blog about their experience and my clients talk on facebook and twitter about their experience. Seeing social media in a vacuum of industry insiders only, gives you an incomplete view.
You also said: “Realtors need to…come up with better ways to demonstrate their value in the real estate transaction…”
No offense to you personally, but that it is just laughable that Homegain should be preaching to the industry about the value of agents. Before your time, Homegain made its break into the industry by treating agents value to be insignificant…so much so that an auction for the lowest bidder was their primary biz model, as I recall, and before your time.
Agent to agent communications have more potential for agents to grow in the right direction, than agent via broker communications. That has ALWAYS been the case. The harm to this industry and the consumers who rely on it, is that MOST agents who know much do not go to their offices anymore to talk with one another. That leaves the poor newbies at a disadvantage, with only the broker and others who don’t know, conversing in the office. Social Media, to a large extent, is at least part of the answer to that problem. Barcamps is another.
I didn’t learn much of anything from my Broker back in 1990. I learned it from the 9 top agents in the office…the agents who now work from home and don’t go to the office anymore. Where can you find those people now? On social media.
What people fail to realize is that agents always learned from one another, and we simply don’t do that inside real estate offices anymore. We do it on the internet and at barcamps and tweetups.
omg period.
Joel,
Somehow I don’t see myself with that “group.”
One thing has been made very clear—there shouldn’t be a debate on the effectivness of SM, at all. PERIOD.
“Real Estate & Social Media: Dissenters or Debate NOT Welcome!”
I think a flawless panel would be on the use of SM in real estate and have MANY heads of thought—not just ONE.
I think the one head of thought is taking these forums (even Inman as a news source for the industry) down the wrong road.
Further, has anyone noticed since SM came in vogue, and the cottage industry of gurus, speakers & consultants flourished, nobody talks about real estate anymore?
Lastly, without closed real estate SALES by successful agents, all this babble is for naught.
Sales and the commissions they produce are what keeps us ALL in our homes/professions.
Let’s get back on track,eeeh?
Sign me,
Keeping My Head on Straight.
You know Kevin, I’m not sure who you are talking with, reading or listening to, but I get in discussions FREQUENTLY about the effectiveness of social media. I think the effectiveness and both sides of ANYTHING remotely related to this business needs open discussion.
Still see lots of talk on real estate too.
Who is the “one head of thought” that’s taking these forums down the wrong road?
Kevin –
Ever read this post?
http://thoughtsonsocialmedia.com/achieving-untold-wealth-via-social-media/
Kev,
Are classes in Social Media any better or worse than classes on Feng Shui for agents? Some find it useful, some don’t. But often one needs to take the class before knowing which side they fall on…no?
I find Feng Shui very useful in real estate. Many don’t. I find Social Media very useful in real estate. many won’t.
There will always be those who look for reasons why not, and not participating may be right for you. But why do you feel so hell bent in suggesting what is or isn’t right for you applies to everyone?
OK, re-read your comment and get the “one head of thought” comment. Originally saw that as one individual. My bad.
I still think you’re missing a LOT of the debate on social media that’s out there. Heck, just go back on Rob Hahn’s blog and you’ll see plenty.
Sure, the snake-oil sales types out there want people to believe SM is the key to riches. But there are plenty of people that talk about both advantages and disadvantages of SM. I open every single class I teach with, “This isn’t a magic pill. You don’t have to do this to be successful.” And I know many others do the same.
It’s simply flat-out incorrect to claim every SM proponent thinks it’s the only way to do business. There are positives and negatives to EVERYTHING.
With all due respect Jay–and without an ounce of snark in my voice, No.
I have NO desire to read yet another column or opinion on social media.
I don’t care about @chrisbrogan @venerchuk or whatever it is. Social media is NOT my business.
Real estate is my business. When Ross Felice or Dolly Lenz write an article on Social Media—then I will care…and until then…I have no interest.
Just like Bill Maher’s NEW RULES:
I only want to chat w/ or read posts from other HIGH PRODUCING, REAL ESTATE professionals. Enough with flailing real estate agents/vendors as paid speakers telling me what I need to do without being SUCCESSFUL and/or in the real estate industry. Show to me and PROVE that you are successful(not you literally)—then, and only then, will I be interested.
Get me a speaker or writer who sells $80+M a year–I’m interested!
Time is passsing. Enough theory talk. Show me the money. Brass tacks, man.
ARDELL,
Come on…you are NOT being very transparent here.
I’m not hell bent and I’m offended that offering the other side of the coin would be described as such.
Remember your tweet?
No problem Kevin. I wrote that article, not some SM guru. In it I clearly say that SM isn’t the key to riches and that people don’t have to do it.
You’ve said here and elsewhere that there is only one side to the SM debate. That article I linked to shows another.
Perhaps if you read that article, and others out there like it, you would see that there IS debate on both sides regarding SM effectiveness.
It’s your choice of course to read or not. But if you’re going to claim there is only one side discussed, you might try opening your mind and reading some of where the other side IS discussed.
Kev,
There’s a difference between an initial reaction and refusing to let go of it. I talked to myself first in that tweet without naming names to give myself time to consider everyone’s point of view.
Yes, we had the same initial reaction. You prove the point that Social Media education is needed. Knowing when to talk to yourself on social media, knowing when to poll others, and being open to changing your initial reaction. That is the point of Marc’s post (or more aptly the point I took from it). He was open to changing his initial reaction and also his long standing point of view.
Without an open mind to change one’s mind (your own), social media becomes of less value.
You struggle with social media being about getting clients, and you should struggle with that. Blogging and other forms of social media cannot only be about what you get vs. what you give. Those who only want to get will out themselves, and it will do them more harm than good. In that you are correct.
Jay,
When you talk theory, I’m thinking specifics–when you talk specifics, I’m thinking theory.
What I’m saying is there is MORE to real estate than SM. Why aren’t there blogs and blogs on real estate and Feng Shui? How it WILL MAKE your business???
Why doesn’t NAR have a Feng Shui expert on hand, eeh?
I think importance/effectiveness of SM is real estate is waaayyyyyy off balance.
Why shouldn’t real estate agents chat as much about video, or feng shui direct mail as much.
The conversation and thought devoted to SM is off kilter for an intangible/immeasurable result—that’s ALL I’m saying.
Even tho ARDELL is being opaque here in this post, the comparison to feng shui in real estate is perfect.
Off kilter. That’s all I’m sayin’.
Still signed,
Keeping My Head on Straight
Yes, ARDELL we had the exact same thought.
The difference between you and I is that I wrote it. I owned it. I didn’t come in here and write butterflies and rainbows, like you did.
To be such an advocate of transparency and then do your PC dance in here wasn’t straight up.
I think I understand where you are coming from Kev. At least I’m trying to. Like I said, I always appreciate listening to the other side of an opinion. I have gotten up and walked out of conference sessions I paid a lot of money to attend when some wacko goes off about how SM is the only answer. Ditto for sessions where some other wacko claims “traditional” methods are all that work.
There is NO be-all-to-end-all solution that works for everyone.
Social Media ROI is difficult to measure. We’ve had that conversation before.
You want specifics? As best I can tell, I will close nine transactions this year from Twitter – three listings and six buyer sides. No, that’s not a ton of business, but it’s not insignificant either. It’s about a fourth of our business this year. The remainder of our business comes mostly from the blog, which in my opinion IS a social media tool.
That’s not to say everyone should go out on Twitter and expect to close nine transactions. Some could do more, most will probably do less. Just like not everyone can or should blog. Or facebook. Or do video. Or cold call, work expireds, direct mail, whatever.
I’ve closed zero transactions from holding open houses in the last four years. But you won’t here me saying open houses don’t work. They don’t work for ME. Why? Because I don’t do them. I hate sitting opens. I suck at trying to schmooze and convert and at marketing them. So I chose not to do them. For me, opens are not an effective use of my time or energy. Social media is. But that’s just me. Others will have different experiences.
If you don’t want to hear all the buzz about SM, then the solution seems simple. Don’t listen to it. But you can’t claim that no one argues the other side. They do. You’re just not listening to that either.
Of note, I’ll take the nine transactions from Twitter, but that’s not why I spend time there. Far more valuable to me is the friendships I make, the personal growth I achieve, and what I learn from others in that space.
Life is far too valuable and short to spend all my time focused on real estate and ROI. I work hard, very hard. But I also play hard. If someone came up to me tomorrow and said “Next year you will get zero transactions from Twitter”, I’d still be there. Commission checks are a great ancillary benefit, but they are the last reason I choose to use that particular platform.
Jay
I understand your response. I have nothing to gain by commenting or offering my opinion. Nothing.
I’m not here to elevate my position, to make money or looking for a backlink.
It seems like there are a lot of people jockeying to take Dustin Luther’s apparently-vacated spot at the helm.
Happy Holidays to all.
Kev,
LOL…I’m going to frame that “butterflies and rainbows” comment. I respect Marc enough not to drag too much mud in, so I posted my initial thought from the hip elsewhere without reference to him or anyone else involved. That IS appropriate use of Social Media, and part of what needs to be taught in the classes.
It’s not about being PC. It’s about how much you do or do not respect the “home” of the blog owner. I chose to spit outside. I don’t always do that. Where I do and don’t do that says a lot about how much I do or do not respect the person whose blog it is.
You should not get angry that I do that, you should rather learn from watching me do it. Biting one’s tongue while they mull things over is as much of an art as “transparency”.
As has been said before, not much different than how one might act at a party in someone else’s house.
Kev,
Feng Shui had its day, and even now is an approved clock hour class for real estate licensees. The reason Social Media is bigger, is because it is a monstrous concept that involves video, twitter, blogging, facebook, and many other things. Blogging IS social media, as is the next thing that comes down the pike.
Why do you separate video from “social media”? Perhaps where you differ from others is in your definition of “social media”. Just a thought.
I’m not getting it. Ok. I’m stupid. So you are saying that there is an unwritten rule somewhere about what is appropriate use of SM?
U’ve been to the SMMI, I take it.
Spit here or there—still spit.
You’re being coy and framing it to be “correct.”
I’m not quite sure I’m getting your choice of forum answer, but…… I owned what I said and cleared the air w/Marc.
You, being the high priestess of blogging, surely know better than I.
I’ll stick to real estate –I’m happy with sticking to real estate. I’ve learned my lesson and like Marc, have been enlightened. ; )
Over and out.
ARDELL,
I’m kind of puttered out w/this. I’ve never seen the Webster dictionary on exactly what is considered sm and what is not.
I run MY blog like a web site. Jay Thompson and Rain City Guide run theirs as social media.
Same application used different ways.
“I run MY blog like a web site. Jay Thompson and Rain City Guide run theirs as social media.”
Care to clarify what the hell that means Kevin?
If you’ve got some kind of problem or issue with “how I run my blog”, then just come out and say so.
Please explain how one blog is “run like a web site” and another is run “as social media”.
I’m trying to hang in here with your argument Kevin, but I’m missing this latest thrust *completely*.
Kevin,
You probably don’t need training on FHA loans either, but that does not make those who teach that and attend that, of little or no value to most agents.
When I speak with you privately we talk about how Social Media fits “Kevin’s” business. You are correct that what I say to you for your purpose is largely different from how I feel generally about social media. It is because you do high end almost exclusively. Not because I am not transparent.
Jay,
Kevin is correct that the purpose of his blog is not to chit chat with people in the comments, which makes it more of a Web 1.0 pseudo-blog supplement to his website, than a Web 2.0 blog. He is not suggesting that RCG and TPREG are inferior…just different by his choosing.
ow gawd Jay.
U say a blog is SM right? I’m giving you that.
It means just what I said. You believe a blog is SM.
I believe MY blog is a Web site. I run it as a Web site. What’s the difference? Who knows. It’s mine, I own it; I don’t encourage a dialogue and I call it a Web site. So my SBCB is not SM. It’s a Web site.
You are right AND I am right.
Ur looking for something that ain’t there. Give it a break.
My blog is a hyper-local real estate consumer-focused web site. I’m not looking to change the world. I look to provide value to someone looking for REAL ESTATE info focusing on the Miami Beach and South Beach areas.
It’s not “industry;” it’s not touting anything nor am I trying to teach anyone, anything. Nor am I advocating anything.
I view my sites [sbcb & kt.com] as a conduit of high-quality real estate-focused content.
Now leave me alone.
I realized the error of my ways earlier today. I tried to offer my POV–and frankly, I’m bored with it all.
I saw the light. I did a mea-culpa ala Davison earlier.
lay off
@Ardelld – You make me blush – Thank you so much for the kind words – But class will tell …
@kevin;
I know that you know very little about me, but after spending most of my life in real estate, first as a top producing agent then building a one man brokerage into a company that has been recognized by third parties as one of the largest in the nation, I will claim the ability to voice a credible opinion even if I don’t make your definition of a “heavy hitter” – Aside from product knowledge and a good work ethic – which for the purpose of this conversation should be a given – it has been my experience having a large sphere of influence is important to a long term career. It has also been my experience that doing business with people who have a modicum of trust in our ability to help facilitate solutions to their rel estate challenges enables us to work more efficiently and productively. Add to that the fact that real estate professionals who are viewed as trusted members of their communities do more business than people who have to do business with a constant supply of new consumers who don’t have a kindly predisposition towards them.
When you get to that bottom line, social media (which is just a term for the interactive web- and not a specific tool set) is a wonderful way to facilitate the growth of a professional’s sphere of influence, and for them to become trusted members of a larger community (as Ardelld pointed out). And when someone as successful as you misses that point entirely, you can understand why I felt there was a need for education about how the process can be used in a positive manner for a business purpose.
For example I think you miss the point about the cocktail party – you shouldn’t be there to do business, you should be there to be part of the social fabric that is being woven there – and then , when your community members need your services, you are at front of mind for them – so they end up calling you rather than searching google to meet a stranger. Does that make sense?
@louis – I recognize that you may have never been a real estate agent, but your opinion of NAR has to be based on misinformation or lack of information – a review of the past 101 years of the association’s history will show you just how far NAR has helped the industry move, from creating a code of ethics well before most states had licensing laws, to creating an arbitration program that is recognized in almost every court in the land, to its outstanding work after Katrina and other natural disasters. The fact that NAR realized that a substantial portion of its members, and a substantial portion of the public were interacting in a space, and took steps to enter that space in a professional and thorough manner should be a cause for celebration. I am proud of my professional association and the steps it has taken and would suggest that you become more familiar with them before you defame them. And if you were to check, you would find that the medical and legal industries (neither of which is famous for either networking or early adoption of social skills) are looking into social media and how it can help them in their marketing efforts. Even the Federal Government is looking to know more about the current uses and applications of social media to assist them in their communications efforts.
Joel – I am so up for the BBQ and would love to have the rest of the folks here attend for some good old face to face conversation as well!
Bill-
exactly my point: if someone has a “slightly” different opinion from the advocates or the “vendors,” it is described as: “misses that point entirely.”
I think agents need education on facilitating real estate transactions, becoming knowledeable in short sales and helping their clients.
Training an agent to learn how to relate to people, say, at a cocktail party; online or in person, is hullabullo.
I hope your SMMI becomes a huge success. I don’t need your training. It’s pompous of you to even suggest that I do. Why, because my opinion is different than yours? I’m offering a different POV. Suggesting that maybe a “results may differ” disclaimer may be warranted?
I hope this blog –that I have been reading for years– doesn’t become, ANOTHER social media blog.
Bill
Additionally I never suggested or commented that I hawk my services at a cocktail party.
I would be horrified if someone said “that’s the real estate agent Kevin Tomlinson.”
I would immediately know that I was at the WRONG party.
These debates remind me of my family get togethers as kid. Lots of heated opinions despite the fact that most of the time everyone was saying the same thing.
Kevin, talk to Bill. Bill talk to Kevin. Please. You are both special people and I suspect good things will result. I went into my discussion with Bill withany of the same opinions you have and left with most of them in tact. I did however come away with a few select understandings that evolved my thinking. You know me and you know I’m principled. Those have not changed.
As for what this blog becomes, my guess is if we continue to write about the things that are important to us it will be what it’s always been – honest, forgiving and dispensing as much as we can about what we know.
All of here, everyone who has posted, all have one thing in common – u care about this business. How can we work together to spread it?
Marc: You’re 1000 watts right – I would be more than happy to talk to Kevin – (and this reminds me of my family discussions as well) and I agree, we would probably be better served -
Some Social Media opinions:
There are different channels of SM. (h/t Danny Sullivan)
Listening is as useful as interaction.
SM ARE tools. You can dig a hole with a shovel or dig a grave.
SM is like butter, too much makes you fat.
You ought know the law before you teach SM.
IRL goes deeper, SM goes wider.
Wuffie amongst peers is not wuffie amongst clients, unless your peers are your clients (or send you clients).
My SMMI curriculum: http://bit.ly/7Xkhyl
Love you all, as you are all right.