I’m no Abe Lincoln. I don’t posses his self-assurance. Or his legendary judgment. But he taught me the importance of holding two opposing thoughts in my head at the same time – something I was called upon to do this week.
On Monday, I had strong set of beliefs about social media. Today they are altered. While I owe a debt of gratitude to Lincoln for showing me the importance of having an open mind, I have someone to thank for filling it with brightness: Bill Lublin.
Chicken soup for the social soul
Like chicken soup, beliefs tend be as any Jewish grandmother would advise, a little bit of this mixed with a whole lot of that and cooked over heat for a long period of time.
And, like chicken soup, beliefs can sometimes be a bit cloudy.
After speaking with Bill yesterday (which turned out be a historically long phone call where time passed far too quickly) my beliefs on social media poured through his cheesecloth.
Today, they are clarified.
For the record, I take this social media thing pretty seriously. But only because of the threat I feel it presents to brokers and agents when pitched by overzealous promoters who use everything from exaggerated success stories to scare tactics to sell whatever it is they’re selling.
I saw this occur during the 90′s, when real estate discovered the Internet, and in the early part of this decade when technology salespeople were peddling crack disguised as ambrosia. So many real estate people bought into goods that were anything but. Thankfully, karma has a way of working things out and while most real estate people are still around, many of the vendors that sold snake oil aren’t.
But there are always new ones emerging.
Tugging at me to sound the alarm.
Warning. Warning.
I was not alone in this concern. Real Estate Tomato launched in an effort to provide products and education for emerging bloggers. As did Internet Crusade and Active Rain. Leading Real Estate Companies of the World swiftly reacted with concern, creating the blogging platform Propopoly to better enable agents to blog safely through the use of their editorial and legal eye. Frances Flynn Thorsen and her firm created social media policies to bring some order to the discussion.
All around me geysers of goodness where springing forth. But I was skeptical. I had beliefs. And I kept to them. Despite emerging facts around me.
SMMI
When SMMI launched, delivering a social media program wrapped around a 2-day course that culminates with a social media designation, my skepticism was unwavering. Fueled by other cynics both inside and outside the industry who paid too much attention to the negative aspects of social media, I found myself focusing so intensely on the bad I failed to acknowledge the good.
Then I spoke to Bill this week. And it might very well stand out as the best phone call I’ve had in the 13 years I’ve been in real estate.
Bill told me things that made me laugh. He told me things that made me think. Bill also told me things that made me cry (Bill, that long pause of silence while you were speaking was me trying like hell to compose myself).
After the call, I shut down my computer. No wait, first I ate some humble pie and DM’d a few people. There are more on my list like Ginger, Jeff, Jim and bunch more who I now understand a whole lot better than I ever allowed myself too. Thanks to Bill Lublin. And Abe Lincoln.
Then I went home.
I hugged my wife.
A little tighter than I normally do.
I was wrong
As it turns out, my beliefs are still in tact. And my instincts about social media are not wrong actually. At least according to Bill, whom I learned shares the very same passions and concerns I do.
Where I have been remiss is not realizing how many more advocates there are in real estate who are looking out for everyone’s best interest. If only I just paid a little more attention, or as Todd suggested on Twitter, get a little social media training of my own, I might have recognized it. Damn straight Todd. I was blind.
I see better today.
- Davison
Twitter
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Sorry Jay you misread my comment below-
I meant (as written below) that to your credit neither you Ardell nor Bill were making the point that social media is a powerful business tool
“What started this discussion, however, arose from a distaste of some people selling or insisting that social media is a powerful business tool.
Neither you nor Jay have made those points, nor has Bill.”
Louis,
Life boils down to two things…is the action formed from a fear based thought or a love based thought. That’s the bottom line.
When vendors call me asking “do you need more clients?” My sincere answer is, no thank you. I get all my clients from blogging and as many, and often more than, I can handle as well as I choose to handle them.
I think for you and other vendors, that represents why you might fear social media.
@Jay: You, Ardell and bill were excluded from the “some people” that are/were selling or insisting that social media is a powerful business tool.
Thanks Louis. Speaking of training, is there a reading comprehension course available?
@Ardell
Thanks for the psychological interpretation of my “fear”
I love what I do and I love listening to you and others here.
There is nothing to fear about social media except social media itself
@Jay-perhaps writing training too might be necessary :’)
Louis,
Please do not exclude me from the list of people who are insisting that Social Media is a powerful business tool.
Thanks!
For me it is THE business tool…exclusively. No, I don’t “sell” 350 houses a year. In fact I don’t “sell houses” at all. I represent people who buy and sell them, and if I did do 350 a year, I would not be giving them the level of care and attention they pay for.
Louis,
Tell me why Homegain is better for consumers than finding their own competent agent via Social Media?
Hi Ardell
“Better” is subjective. I would recommend that rather than airing another homegain commercial here, perhaps you visit HomeGain site, check out the offerings, testimonials etc and see what we have to offer and provide your critique as to why social media is “better”
Btw you will see “social media” blogs on the homegain site too.
I still have yet to meet any Agent doing a substantial business using social media. I spoke at a seminar last year in Orlando to about 40-50 Agents who believed that social media was the answer to Realtors success. It was in November and I asked who had more than 5 sales from social media that year. Not one of the agents raised their hands.
The reality is, and this is my reality, if I’m going to run my business like a business, I’m going to use proven tools to create leads and generate transactions.
Ardell – The answer your question to Louis about Homegain versus Social Media, at least in my opinion, is that I don’t have to wait for a customer to find my blog or be a friend on facebook. I use the BuyerLink program and know pretty close, how many sales I’m going to have year in and year out. We actually do sell 350, actually only 325 homes this year and our customers receive great customer service. 95% of our business comes from the BuyerLink program in one way or another. Each year our referrals go up, but those original leads were most likely and almost always from BuyerLink.
@louis
I have to agree with @ardell that it simply feels like you are trying to hijack the conversation to hawk the Homegain product rather than add to the SM conversation. I used Homegain with my company in 1999 and went on to some pretty big deals with Homegain and the large brokerage I worked for earlier this decade. For a few it was successful but ultimately we killed it because it didn’t have a positive ROI for the brokerage(I realize the agent centric model might be easier to monetize). If we are going to continue the sales pitch lets look at the overwhelming numbers:
website says you have made over 100,000 “connections” in the 11 years since inception. For the sake of argument, we’ll say that a connection on Homegain = a sale.
Average sale over the last 11 years nationally is about 180K so that means you created 18 billion in sales volume
times the average commision rate per side of 2.51% means you created 452 million in commissions
divided by the 11 years you have been in business means about 45 million in commissions annually
Lets assume that in addition to the “nearly 1000″ who are in your elite clubs, you have an additional 1/2 of 1% of NAR members participating (seems reasonable) that means there are 6000 agents nationally using Homegain (I bet it’s more cause you guys are pretty good salespeople)
If we divide 45 million in commissions annually by 6000 agents, you are driving about $7,500 per agent annually
If we go back and calculate that the average sale of 180K times the average commission side of 2.51% it’s $4518, then you are driving about 1.6 sides per agent per year.
Good, perhaps but “SM does NOT stack up to HomeGain by a long shot as a way of generating business.”? Does Homegain stack up to Homes Guide ads by these numbers? Not sure…
BTW your site claims $10 billion in commissions (I said 18) so if we substitute your number, the average deals per agent per year becomes less than one (.84 to be exact)
I really like math.
Mitch,
My dream for the consumer is that every dime spent on vendors for “leads” gets passed to them somehow. Social Media empowers the consumer to find their own agent better without the middleman fees. That has nothing to do with any specific “middleman” cost or company. Using hindsight to measure the future potential is smoke and mirrors.
Ardell,
I only have a moment as I’m off to play a little golf. I don’t buy leads, I buy traffic, not different than buying traffic from a PPC program on Google or Yahoo. I can’t tell you how many of our customers thank us again and again for contacting them about buying or selling real estate. They all say the same thing. “We registered on a bunch of sites but no other Realtors ever took the time to contact us.”
On the other side, for my listings, every dime I spend on marketing to buyers sells my listings. My average listing receives 300-400 clicks per month and we sell about 40% of our own listings.
My business has nothing to do with any company, I use Homegain because this program works great for me. However, prior to Homegain I did it with Google and Yahoo, it just cost me a little more and the capture rate was a lot less.
In the end, at least to me, and this is strictly my opinion, it’s about generating traffic to my website, creating a lead and turning that lead into a customer for life. To me that is no different than someone finding me on facebook and registering on my site or finding one of my blogs and registering on my site. I just find that with Social Media I lose the most important aspect of my business (besides taking care of our customers to the highest degree of professionalism) which is predictability. I know that each year when I do my marketing budget, exactly what I’ll spend and pretty accurately how many transactions that dollar spend will turn. To me, that’s business and it works great. I have no smoke and mirrors techniques. My Agents work their buns off to take care of our customers and I’m extremely proud of all of them.
I hope that makes sense. Off to the golf course!
Louis:
Please get me off the list of people who do not think that social media is not a powerful business tool (which may not reflect your intent but is a tough statement for me to swallow)
In my years as a real estate agent and broker, the greatest success I have came from referrals and recommendations. These came from being a trusted member of my communities. Social media allows me to have a larger community, and a larger set of communities than ever before, and allows me to connect with people in a more efficient manner than was possible prior. And that generates lots of income – thereby making it a powerful business tool. (And that doesn’t count the heretofore expensive and difficult jobs of reputation measurement and management, or determining the needs and wants of our consumers through listening to their now public conversations). I understand that you are in a lead generating business, but that is not the only business tool that people need.
On the other discussion – I will refrain from discussing the pros and cons of any business that exists to be an intermediary between the supplier of a service and the individual who needs the service except to point out that it creates a layer of cost to the transaction itself which needs to be borne by someone.
@Frances – Our course covers everything you mentioned and does provide the student with an executable strategy! Its a pretty sporty course and it was designed to be practical for implementation by agents and brokers.
@Bill- removed!
“I will refrain from discussing the pros and cons of any business that exists to be an intermediary between the supplier of a service and the individual who needs the service except to point out that it creates a layer of cost to the transaction itself which needs to be borne by someone.”
Bill-Middlemen exist in just about every industry.
The utility of them is a fertile topic of discussion.
Why refrain from discussing them?
@bill I hesitate to remind you that middlemen is how 15% of the selling population view US!
@mjeffers99-Thanks for noting that realtors can be viewed as middlemen getting between a buyer and a seller of homes and adding to the cost of the transaction.
Of course the argument goes that realtors provide a valuable service. I agree:
Here are 101 reasons to use a real estate agent
http://blog.homegain.com/homegain/101-reasons-to-use-a-real-estate-agent/
and fifty reasons to use a buyer’s agents
http://blog.homegain.com/homegain/50-reasons-to-use-a-buyers-agent/
Again, the examination of middlemen in industry and society will reveal far more good than bad.
Some people need someone to do their tax return, some don’t. Some people need an agent to help them buy or sell a house, some don’t. It’s that simple.
[...] of Social Media. While I am curious about that conversation, I am more intrigued by the recent post MarcDavison [...]
I have no problem with middlemen, as long it is the consumer’s choice to have one…or disclosed to the consumer…so they know about that cost in the mix.
This conversation is way over my purrty little head. Percentages, metric, consumers, transparency—middlemen…whew…my head is spinning. I come back from a facial to find 50 more comments here. Dang!
Where’s @tcar @anncummings and a mini diet coke when you need one?
Sheez. I just wanna sell someone something.
219 comments??? all I have to say right now is — WOW
Drew,
It’s Kevin’s fault…that’s all I’m sayin’
Listen this definitely is the industry post of the year.
@ardell started it with all her lofty ideals of transparency and crap like that.
I just want to be rich.
Kevin,
I just want to get to Heaven.
I just want to look like Kevin.
@Kev – A facila? And I thought those good looks were all natural – Now I’m thinking some Hollywood
If this is the industry post of the year, what do we have on for 2010? We may need to step it up-
@Louis – I know we’re middlemen – that’s actually the point – it was the concept of adding another layer of middlemen to the middlemen that was the conversation I was avoiding. Just wanted to be respectful of your business model
@Drew – you just wanted to be #220 – Missed you at Triple Play but thanks for sending Sarah – She’s awesome!
@ardelld I thought we already were in heaven – You’re such an angel ….
@Jay I want you to look like Kevin too – since people think I look like you I’ll just bathe in the reflected glory
Bill,
Now you know me. My young, good looks are “culled.”
That’s transparent.
Marc, Brian
I just downloaded Flymebait 2K for my Droid.
It’s great. It drops heinous comments in any post that it gaining momentum in the blogosphere.
Multiple settings for:arrogance; self-importance; off-topic; inappropriate; self-congratulatory (oh that one will be big for the re.net), et al.
You can set it up to go back in every 5 minutes to leave another doosie—say about someone’s mother.
Flaymebait 2k for Droid!
Kevin…
LMFAO!!!!!!!!
This great post somehow turned into one big a$$ advertisement. How sad.
Good for you for listening to all sides of the argument, Marc. Although, I find it strange so many people are fighting over the pros and cons of Social Media. Who cares? Unless, of course, you are marketing yourself as a SM expert and selling courses on how to use it….
@HoustonBlogger,
“This great post somehow turned into one big a$$ advertisement. How sad”.
I don’t see it as sad. I’m actually glad. For whatever reason, my admissions here have provided others to finally get stuff off their own chest too. I think everything written here is valid. Even Kevin’s facial which in the wake of all that is important and all the chaos one must never forget to pay a little attention to themselves.
Yes Louis is passionate about what he does as is Bill and others. But as Ardell shared with me today, down the road, if and when some new or some seasoned agent comes upon this post with questions about SM, business models, etc., maybe the conversations here, which represent much of what goes on out there in real estate, will shed some light on their own issues and feelings.
“I find it strange so many people are fighting over the pros and cons of Social Media. Who cares? Unless, of course, you are marketing yourself as a SM expert and selling courses on how to use it”"
It’s not strange that there is a debate (not fight) about it however, to your point, what’s strange is where is taking place – in social media.
As for me, no I am not a social media expert. I understand advertising, marketing and branding and can apply those skills and service to SM. But I do not consider myself a SM expert nor do I think anyone else does either.
The only part of SM I have some understanding of is when a business does SM for business, albeit it customer service, sales, marketing, etc., it ought to be strategic and apply brand standards. In my mind, those two things will ensures its it ability to connect with, relate with and convey the the values of the company with it’s readers, members and followers.
As for social, social media, I do feel those same standards ought to be applied too. In other words, if your SM efforts reflect the true you and if you’re committed to it through the virtues of what you hold sacred, then your efforts in SM, whatever they are, will be fulfilling and possibly even surprising.
These are the things I understand about SM based on my perception of as a vehicle that ultimately promotes you or your business to the world.
And that’s it. Beyond that, I am a student of it like you.
“The only part of SM I have some understanding of is when a business does SM for business, albeit it customer service, sales, marketing, etc., it ought to be strategic and apply brand standards. In my mind, those two things will ensures its ability to connect with, relate with and convey the values of the company with it’s readers, members and followers.
As for social, social media, I do feel those same standards ought to be applied too. In other words, if your SM efforts reflect the true you and if you’re committed to it through the virtues of what you hold sacred, then your efforts in SM, whatever they are, will be fulfilling and possibly even surprising. ”
Amen.
I’ve been noodling this post for days now… Seeing the voices that spoke up, I felt that I had little to offer.
I still do, but I want to make this point: I wouldn’t have known the caliber of any of you, had it not been for social media. I wouldn’t respect you all as I do and I certainly wouldn’t have referred people to 1000 Watt without it, or to Real Estate Shows or recommended that new Agents in PA go talk to Lublin’s office.
I wouldn’t have gained the valuable knowledge that I have on marketing and practice if it wasn’t for it.
I have gotten clients from Social Media, just as I have from mailings, community involvement, etc… It’s PART of my client engagement and not the end-all-be-all. It was new and needed to be clarified for some people (thus SMMI). (Actually it’s still very new to a lot of agents…) I may not need a class on farming or marketing my listings, but I go to them anyway, so let’s not harsh the mellow of the Social Media instructors, unless we’re going to crap all over everyone trying to teach us something.
I’m like Kevin, in that I just want to be rich. I think it would be easier if I looked like Kevin, but I ain’t got the money for that much plastic surgery.
(My wife says she likes me as I am…)
There will always be haters – tolerate them anyway.
Hey guys.
Good morning. I figured I come on in and say hey to the gang. Hey.
In about five mins the Flaymebayter 2k for droid will pop in and leave a heinous bomb to get things going.
Ok see you.
Bye.
wow….wow…this is definitely THE real estate discussion of 2009!